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MaxD

David

 

Thank you, I have clearly misread what has gone before. I had found a half a dozen or so  "near number" (both 800s and 650....s) men from Edinburgh in 260 or 315 Brigade later but hadn't connected the dots correctly at all.  You have clarified it for me, thank you again.

 

Max

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MaxD

David

 

Another word of thanks, you gave pointers that took me to the Lowland Brigade war diary and the HQRA 51 Div diary, from which, give or take slight disparities in dates, the shuffling about  and the re-titling in May 1916 (Lowland to 257), Jun 1916 (257 to 260) and then Jan/Feb 1917 (260 to 315) can fairly readily be reconstructed.  

 

Punched,bored or countersunk comes to mind!

 

Max

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simon

I am tracking the military service of the dramatist Granville Barker.  He joined Royal Field Artillery in August 1916 then moved to Royal Garrison Artillery.  I'd like to find out the names of the Colonel at St John's Wood barracks in July/August 1916; the Major in charge of RGA at Trowbridge barracks in September 1916; whoever was in charge of Coast Defence at Weymouth in October 1916; and lastly (for the moment) the name of the Colonel of RGA who would have overseen Trowbridge and/or Weymouth.  I cannot yet find these names anywhere else.  I am absolutely not a military historian (though from Barker's letters I now know quite a lot about basic training at St John's Wood...). any help would be gratefully received.

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MaxD

Do you have the units he was serving with in each of the locations/dates?

 

Max

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simon

all I know, from other sources, is that what was based at St John's Wood was Battery F of Brigade IV of the Royal Horse Artillery.  he gives no other description of Trowbridge: its full title was No 1 Officer Cadet School Trowbridge, Royal Garrison Artillery (presumably set up in 1915), and he simply says there was a Major in charge of the school.  the reference to a Colonel in 1918 is 'my Colonel': although he was by now in the Intelligence Department he retained his rank of Second Lieutenant, presumably still attached to RGA (the Colonel is a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George, which would make him one of a select group - but again I can't find those people listed for 1918). sorry not to have more.

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MaxD

F Battery RHA was indeed at St John's Wood but at the start of the war.  It went to Belgium in October 1914 and remained there for the duration.  

 

If the man you are talking about is Harley Granville Barker, then his service record is at the National Archives  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1125741 

 

This would tie down exactly what his units were and when armed with which you could ask the RA Museum at Larkhill ro research the detail.  The museum is temporarily lodging there until a site can be found - a number of volunteer researchers are on hand to field queries such as yours email: enquiries@RoyalArtilleryMuseum.com <enquiries@RoyalArtilleryMuseum.com>;

 

Max

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David Porter
17 hours ago, simon said:

I'd like to find out the names of the Colonel at St John's Wood barracks in July/August 1916

 

Simon,

 

See this thread, in particular post #8

 

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simon

thanks very much to Max and David (and for being so quick).  it is indeed Harley Granville Barker.  thanks for the info about the RA Museum (and for correcting the error about Battery F, taken from what purported to be a history of the Artillery regiments).  I'll also check whether Bailey was the man at St John's Wood (though Barker calls the man there a Colonel - and he usually always has his details right; he's not particularly flattering about him either).  all this for about three footnotes.  hey ho

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MaxD

I'm finding it difficult to get a time line straight.  He was commissioned from RA Cadet School on 12 Oct 1916 (London Gazette 20 Oct 1916).  No 1 RA Cadet School Royal Field Artillery was at St John's Wood but No 1 Cadet School Royal Garrison Artillery was at Trowbridge.  His own notes suggest he was at both places, was he at the Wood as a soldier or as a cadet?.  The earlier thread that David pointed to suggests that FGG Bailey was RFA so may not be relevant to the Trowbridge school.

 

There is also a little difficulty with the term "My colonel" as it is customary to use the term colonel in conversation for  both colonels and lieutenant colonels.  The "Intelligence Department" is also too wide an expression to be sure about where this was, at the War Office or in a headquarters ??

 

I appreciate that you don't have a handle on these hence my thought that his record should be your start point.  

 

Max

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simon

I can do the time-line pretty precisely: arrives at St John's Wood 7 August 1916; arrives at Trowbridge 11 September 1916; leaves Trowbridge around 1 October, to be posted to Weymouth,  He learns of his commission on 11 October (when he is at Weymouth: he is 'dined in' there).  He began at SJW as a private, but was always training for a commission. (I have imagined that as a cadet his rank was private, but this might be my ignorance of the mechanics.)

 

Ah - if colonel can be used of both ranks, then the man he was talking about at SJW was probably Bailey.  but then I suspect he means someone belonging to RGA when in 1918 he talks of 'my colonel'. 

 

He was in Intelligence in the War Office (high up in Whitehall Court), under Smith-Cumming but occasionally seconded to Wiseman.  First day in Intelligence was 12 October.

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David Porter
42 minutes ago, simon said:

I have imagined that as a cadet his rank was private

 

Simon,

 

It would more likely be Cadet Gunner or Cadet Driver. If he had failed to get a commission he would have served in the ranks. You may have noticed he was given the number 153480, which he would have retained had he not been commissioned. In the event he was commissioned fairly quickly as the average time was four months. I have an interesting document given to another cadet recruit at St. John's Wood which I will send by PM. I hope you spotted that F. G. G. Bailey left SJW on August 31, 1916.

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simon

he calls himself a 'private'.  indeed he says he takes a rather 'perverse' delight in being a private. there's wonderfully comic accounts of doing saluting and observing all the proprieties. it's partly comic because, as he says, in uniform he is a private while in his club (the Garrick) he 'hob-nobbed with generals', so he's sort of in two spaces at once.  (he says that in order to take his nephew to lunch they have to go to the club. because his nephew is a captain.)

 

anyway, yup - I spotted that Bailey left SJW on 31 August, but he'd have been there when my man arrived on 7th.

 

and thank you for the wonderfully helpful document, separately acknowledged.

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