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MaxD

David

 

Thank you, I have clearly misread what has gone before. I had found a half a dozen or so  "near number" (both 800s and 650....s) men from Edinburgh in 260 or 315 Brigade later but hadn't connected the dots correctly at all.  You have clarified it for me, thank you again.

 

Max

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MaxD

David

 

Another word of thanks, you gave pointers that took me to the Lowland Brigade war diary and the HQRA 51 Div diary, from which, give or take slight disparities in dates, the shuffling about  and the re-titling in May 1916 (Lowland to 257), Jun 1916 (257 to 260) and then Jan/Feb 1917 (260 to 315) can fairly readily be reconstructed.  

 

Punched,bored or countersunk comes to mind!

 

Max

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simon

I am tracking the military service of the dramatist Granville Barker.  He joined Royal Field Artillery in August 1916 then moved to Royal Garrison Artillery.  I'd like to find out the names of the Colonel at St John's Wood barracks in July/August 1916; the Major in charge of RGA at Trowbridge barracks in September 1916; whoever was in charge of Coast Defence at Weymouth in October 1916; and lastly (for the moment) the name of the Colonel of RGA who would have overseen Trowbridge and/or Weymouth.  I cannot yet find these names anywhere else.  I am absolutely not a military historian (though from Barker's letters I now know quite a lot about basic training at St John's Wood...). any help would be gratefully received.

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MaxD

Do you have the units he was serving with in each of the locations/dates?

 

Max

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simon

all I know, from other sources, is that what was based at St John's Wood was Battery F of Brigade IV of the Royal Horse Artillery.  he gives no other description of Trowbridge: its full title was No 1 Officer Cadet School Trowbridge, Royal Garrison Artillery (presumably set up in 1915), and he simply says there was a Major in charge of the school.  the reference to a Colonel in 1918 is 'my Colonel': although he was by now in the Intelligence Department he retained his rank of Second Lieutenant, presumably still attached to RGA (the Colonel is a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George, which would make him one of a select group - but again I can't find those people listed for 1918). sorry not to have more.

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MaxD

F Battery RHA was indeed at St John's Wood but at the start of the war.  It went to Belgium in October 1914 and remained there for the duration.  

 

If the man you are talking about is Harley Granville Barker, then his service record is at the National Archives  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1125741 

 

This would tie down exactly what his units were and when armed with which you could ask the RA Museum at Larkhill ro research the detail.  The museum is temporarily lodging there until a site can be found - a number of volunteer researchers are on hand to field queries such as yours email: enquiries@RoyalArtilleryMuseum.com <enquiries@RoyalArtilleryMuseum.com>;

 

Max

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David Porter
17 hours ago, simon said:

I'd like to find out the names of the Colonel at St John's Wood barracks in July/August 1916

 

Simon,

 

See this thread, in particular post #8

 

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simon

thanks very much to Max and David (and for being so quick).  it is indeed Harley Granville Barker.  thanks for the info about the RA Museum (and for correcting the error about Battery F, taken from what purported to be a history of the Artillery regiments).  I'll also check whether Bailey was the man at St John's Wood (though Barker calls the man there a Colonel - and he usually always has his details right; he's not particularly flattering about him either).  all this for about three footnotes.  hey ho

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MaxD

I'm finding it difficult to get a time line straight.  He was commissioned from RA Cadet School on 12 Oct 1916 (London Gazette 20 Oct 1916).  No 1 RA Cadet School Royal Field Artillery was at St John's Wood but No 1 Cadet School Royal Garrison Artillery was at Trowbridge.  His own notes suggest he was at both places, was he at the Wood as a soldier or as a cadet?.  The earlier thread that David pointed to suggests that FGG Bailey was RFA so may not be relevant to the Trowbridge school.

 

There is also a little difficulty with the term "My colonel" as it is customary to use the term colonel in conversation for  both colonels and lieutenant colonels.  The "Intelligence Department" is also too wide an expression to be sure about where this was, at the War Office or in a headquarters ??

 

I appreciate that you don't have a handle on these hence my thought that his record should be your start point.  

 

Max

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simon

I can do the time-line pretty precisely: arrives at St John's Wood 7 August 1916; arrives at Trowbridge 11 September 1916; leaves Trowbridge around 1 October, to be posted to Weymouth,  He learns of his commission on 11 October (when he is at Weymouth: he is 'dined in' there).  He began at SJW as a private, but was always training for a commission. (I have imagined that as a cadet his rank was private, but this might be my ignorance of the mechanics.)

 

Ah - if colonel can be used of both ranks, then the man he was talking about at SJW was probably Bailey.  but then I suspect he means someone belonging to RGA when in 1918 he talks of 'my colonel'. 

 

He was in Intelligence in the War Office (high up in Whitehall Court), under Smith-Cumming but occasionally seconded to Wiseman.  First day in Intelligence was 12 October.

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David Porter
42 minutes ago, simon said:

I have imagined that as a cadet his rank was private

 

Simon,

 

It would more likely be Cadet Gunner or Cadet Driver. If he had failed to get a commission he would have served in the ranks. You may have noticed he was given the number 153480, which he would have retained had he not been commissioned. In the event he was commissioned fairly quickly as the average time was four months. I have an interesting document given to another cadet recruit at St. John's Wood which I will send by PM. I hope you spotted that F. G. G. Bailey left SJW on August 31, 1916.

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simon

he calls himself a 'private'.  indeed he says he takes a rather 'perverse' delight in being a private. there's wonderfully comic accounts of doing saluting and observing all the proprieties. it's partly comic because, as he says, in uniform he is a private while in his club (the Garrick) he 'hob-nobbed with generals', so he's sort of in two spaces at once.  (he says that in order to take his nephew to lunch they have to go to the club. because his nephew is a captain.)

 

anyway, yup - I spotted that Bailey left SJW on 31 August, but he'd have been there when my man arrived on 7th.

 

and thank you for the wonderfully helpful document, separately acknowledged.

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Awardie
On 06/01/2004 at 06:46, rflory said:

I have the following Royal Artillery and Canadian Artillery unit histories and would be happy to do lookups as time permits:

Divisional Artilleries

Narrative of the 5th Divisional Artillery, 1914-1918

History of the 20th Divisional Artillery, 1914-1919

29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book 1915-1918

Brief History of 31st Divisional Artillery (officers only listed)

History of the 33rd Divisional Artillery in the War, 1914-1918

A Short History of the 39th (Deptford) Divisional Artillery 1915-1918

War Services of the 62nd West Riding Divisional Artillery

Royal Field Artillery Brigades

The War History of the 1st Northumbrian Brigade, RFA TF

War Diary of the 1st West Lancashire Brigade, RFA

A Short History of the 1st West Lancashire Artillery Brigade

Kamp News, 1915-1918 (3rd West Lancashire Brigade, RFA TF

Hertfordshire Yeomanry and Artillery Honours and Awards (4 E Anglican Bde, RFA TF)

Lewisham Gunners (4th Lond Howitzer Bde, RFA)

London Gunners Come to Town (5, 6, 7, and 8 London Brigades, RFA TF)

Short Record of War Services of the 7th London Brigade, RFA TF

25th Brigade Ammunition Column War Diary (1914)

Roll of Honour and Casualties and List of Officers who have served with 75th Brigade, RFA, 24

August to 11 November 1918.

Push and Return Push (82 Brigade, RFA

The Raising of the 157th Brigade (City of Aberdeen), RFA TF

The History of the Locally Raised 160th Wearside Brigade, Royal Field Artillery

Exploits and Escapades, Brief History of happenings of the 3rd Staffs Battery, RFA

Before the Echoes Die Away (242 Bde, RFA, 5th Warsickshire (How) Battery)

The Story of the Monmouthshire Volunteer Artillery (266 Bde, RFA TF)

Diex Aix: God Help Us (9 Divisional Ammunition Column, RFA)

Royal Field Artillery Batteries

2nd City of Edinburgh Battery, RFA, 1914-1918

Record of the 3rd Devonshire Battery (Tavistock), 4th Wessex Bde, RFA TF, The Great War,

1914-1919

Third Durham Volunteer Artillery (4th Durham Battery, RFA TF)

The Battery Book (1/6 Hants Battery, RFA TF)

The History of Strange’s Battery, Royal Artillery (8th Battery, RFA)

27th Battery, RFA, 1914-1919

The History of A Battery, 84th Brigade, RFA 1914-1919

Field Guns in France (D/151; A/150 Batteries, RFA)

The Long March, Story of “The Devils Own”, B/210 Burnley Battery, RFA 1914-1919

Over There, Commemorative History of the Old Leak Battery, 1908-1919 (C/231, RFA)

An Australian in the RFA (D/242, RFA

A Record of D245 Battery, 1914-1919

History of the Yarmouth Battery, 1569-1926 (A/270, A/264, A/272 Batteries, RFA)Romford to

Beirut via France, Egypt and Jericho (B/271, RFA)

Royal Horse Artillery Brigades and Batteries

History of the 1/1st Hants Royal Horse Artillery during the Great War, 1914-1919

Shropshire Royal Horse Artillery, 1912-1918

The War Diary of “E” Battery, Royal Horse Artillery, 5th Aug. 1914-31st Oct. 1919

The Story of “F” Troop, Royal Horse Artillery (F Bty, RHA)

Some Pages from the History of “Q” Battery, RHA in the Great War

Royal Garrison Artillery Brigades

The 25th Army Brigade, RGA on the Western Front in 1918

61, How Some Wheels Went Round (61 Heavy Artillery Group, RGA)

History of the 77th Bde, RGA, France 1916-19

Nine Days: Adventures of a Heavy Artillery Brigade of the Third Army during the German

Offensive of March 21-29, 1918 (90 Brigade, RGA)

Heavy Batteries, RGA

9 Heavy Battery, RGA, 1914-1919

War Diary and Roll of Honour, 14th Heavy Battery, RGA in France, Belgium, Germany

With the Heavies in Flanders (24 Heavy Battery, RGA)

Dads Diary, A Gunners Experience in War, 1914-1918 (121 Heavy Battery, RGA)

126 Heavy Battery, RGA, 1915-1919

The Hampstead Heavies (138 Heavy Battery, RGA)

Diary of 144th (York) Heavy Battery, RGA, 1915-1919

Siege Batteries, RGA

The Eleventh Siege Battery, RGA, 1914-1918

Notes of History of 19th Siege Battery, RGA

20th Siege Battery, RGA, BEF, France and Flanders, 20th June 1915-11th November 1918

27th Siege Battery, RGA, BEF, France and Flanders, 5 Sept 1915 to 15 Apr 1919.

Memoirs of 42 Siege Battery, RGA, 1914-1918

52 Siege Battery, RGA, August 1915-August 1919

A Short History of the 72nd (South African) Siege Battery

The History of 76 Siege Battery, RGA

History of 81 Siege Battery, RGA

History of the 91st (Siege) Battery, RGA, December 1915 to 11 November 1918

Siege Battery 94 During the World War, 1914-1918

Occasional Gunfire, Private War Diary of a Siege Gunner (118 Siege Battery, RGA)

126th Heavy Battery, RGA 1915-1919

History of the 135th Siege Battery, RGA

144th Siege Battery, R. G. A.

A History of 154 Siege Battery, RGA, France 1916-19

Nominal Roll of 170th Siege Battery, RGA

178 Siege Battery, R. G. A., B. E. F. France

“Two Eleven,” Being the History of 211 Siege Battery, R. G. A. on the Western Front

220th Siege Battery, R. G. A.

“228”, The History of a Siege Battery during the Great War

History of 250 Siege Battery, R.G.A.

With a Siege Battery in France, 303 Siege Battery, RGA

London Gunners (309 (Hon Arty Co) Siege Battery, RGA)

The Honourable Artillery Company in the Great War

332 Siege Battery, R.G.A.

The Record of 355 Siege Battery

A Short Record of the 359th Siege Battery RGA

Canadian Field Artillery

Gun-Fire, An Historical Narrative of the 4th Brigade, CFA

NREF, 16th Brigade, C.F.A.

The Battery, The History of 10th (St. Catherines) Field Battery, RCA (10 Bty, CFA)

The Diary of the 13th Battery, Canadian Field Artillery 1914-1919

Battery Action! The Story of the 43rd Battery, CFA

The History of the Fifty-Fifth Battery, CFA

The 60th C. F. A. Battery Book, 1916-1919

The Story of the Sixty-Sixth C. F. A. (66 Bty, CFA)

Second Canadian Divisional Ammunition Column and Its Part in the Great World War

Canadian Siege Artillery

The Seventh (7 Siege Battery, CGA)

War Diary, 10th Canadian Siege Battery, 1917-1919

 

Hi Rflory

 

I'm looking for my father, Major Harold Towry Ward,  who was in Gallipoli and may have been transferred to the 29th Division. He fought in Gallipoli and on the Western Front till the end of the war. Sadly all his service records appear to have either been culled or blitzed..

 

Would much appreciate it if you could let me know if he appears in 29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book 1915-1918.

 

Many thanks

 

Anthony Ward

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David Porter
2 hours ago, Awardie said:

Sadly all his service records appear to have either been culled or blitzed.

 

Welcome to the Forum Anthony,

 

There is very good news regarding his service record.

It has been retained and available to view at the National Archives at Kew.

Reference WO 339/8520 - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1062458

As you may know, the NA is currently closed but @rflory may be able to give an outline of his service.

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rflory

Anthony:  He is not listed in the 29th Divisional Artillery War Record and Honours Book and I do not have anything about him in my RA officer's database.  The Monthly Army List, November 1918 shows him as a Temp. Lieut., RFA (formerly Special Reserve).  Do you have any information on his units and any public schools he attended?

 

Dick Flory

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David Porter

Anthony,

 

A little more digging has revealed he was commissioned in the Northumberland Artillery Militia on April 7, 1906 as 2nd Lt.

At the outbreak of war he is a farmer in New Zealand and joins the Wellington Infantry Regiment. His service with them is online.

There are 16 pages here - https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/records/610159/1

You will see he is in Egypt from December 1914 to June 1915 before transfer to RFA.

It also says (on page 16) "Granted Imperial Commn. while N.Z. Division was in Zeitoun, Egypt"

 

A long shot, but there is a Medal Index Card for a Lt. H. T. Ward of 60th BAC and D/58 with Egypt date of entry as October 14, 1915.

 

EDIT: Bingo - he is listed here - https://58fab.com/personnel/

Edited by David Porter
Additional Information

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michaeldr

Dick,

 

I wonder if in your researches you have come across this chap

Captain A Burrowes RGA

 

 

A friend of mine has come across an incident where an unexploded Dumezil mortar round was successfully retrieved, from beyond the front line, while under enemy rifle fire from only 60 or 80 yards away.

 

It is thought that Burrowes did the retrieving and any further info which you can add would be most welcome

 

Best regards

Michael

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