German POW Camp

[rugby-137]

Pals

I`ve found out today that there used to be a German POW camp at the above. Does anyone know anything of the camp? And also it`s exact whereabouts? Any help would be much appreciated.


Regards


Phil Henry

[Moonraker]

Outside my geographical area of interest, but before more helpful replies start to be posted, let me just note that contemporary postcards of PoWs marching to, or at, Frith Hill Camp are quite common; indeed, together with Dorchester PoW camp, it's the only one I know of that's featured in cards. I did a little research a few years ago and noted varying regulations about photographing German PoWs, and I suspect that the Frith Hill cards were published early in the war before the rules were tightened up. I imagine that studio-type photography of POWs - obviously with their consent - was allowed/tolerated, and a few months ago I posted one such such card of PoWs and their guards at Swindon in 1918.

Entering "Frith Hill" in The Times archive search box produces 10 hits for 1914-1920, including this:

Moonraker

[rugby-137]

Hi Moonraker

Thanks for that piece of info, if i pm you my e-mail address could you send that through to me please.

Regards

Phil

[rugby-137]

While this thread is back at the top i still need information on the exact whereabouts of this camp, if anyone could help it would be much appreciated.

Regards

Phil Henry

[bootneck]

You will be able to find reports on Frith Hill POW Camp in the Camberley News and Yorktown Observer, copies of which are held at the British Newspaper Library, Colindale. Reports pertaining to the camp can also be found at the National Archives in FO 383. There is a particularly good report covering the camp towards the end of the war; unfortunately, I cannot remember the reference.

Surrey History Centre and the Surrey Heath Museum both hold small amounts of material on the camp, the former holds a number of postcards.

When the camp originally opened it housed both POWs and civilian internees. It closed in late October/early November 1914 due to inclement weather and reopened the next spring just for POWs. I beleive it was not a permenant camp and possibly was resited around Frith Hill at various times. The report mentioned above as I remember seemed to imply that it was a work camp. It is not far from Blackdown Camp.

Regards,

Bootneck

[rugby-137]

Bootneck

Many thanks for the information. Judging by what you said of it not being a permanent fixture i now doubt if there is any trace of the camp.

Thanks again

Regards

Phil

[bootneck]

Phil

I doubt that anything remains of Frith Hill POW Camp as all the postcards I have seen show a tented camp behind barded wire. The Royal Logistics Corps Museum is not far from Frith Hill and they may have some material.

Regards,

Bootneck

[Moonraker]

Hi Moonraker

Thanks for that piece of info, if i pm you my e-mail address could you send that through to me please.

Regards

Phil

Phil: By all means pm me your email address, though I'm not too sure what you want me to send you - perhaps the article above? I'm not sure if I'm going to appear ignorant or patronising when I say that it should be possible to copy it from my first post; I could, and I always thought my PC was very basically equipped. You may be able to check the other articles in The Times/i] archive via your local library; see

this thread

Moonraker

[rugby-137]

Hi Moonraker

I`ve managed to download what i need from your link, many thanks again for your help.

Regards

Phil Henry

[Doug Johnson]

From correspondence dated 2nd Dec 1918, from Sir Edward Gray to Mr Page, it states, in reference to prisoners accommodation in general, that "Some are still in tents, but these will be moved to cover within the next few days." this seems to indicate that the tented accommodation shown on the postcards pre dates the closure in Nov 1914 and that when it re-opened it was as a 'permanent' camp, probably of timber. There are five references in FO383 in the on line index to the NA catalogue. Three of these relate to reports including one by the Swiss and one by the Red Cross (in French). One of these reports should indicate the type of accommodation.

The postal address in the list of places of internment states 'Headquarters, Blackdown, Surrey'. This may not relate to the camp itself as it may just be a convenient place to receive post.

Doug

[Ice Tiger]

Phil

This looks like another project in the making!

Andy

[rugby-137]

From correspondence dated 2nd Dec 1918, from Sir Edward Gray to Mr Page, it states, in reference to prisoners accommodation in general, that "Some are still in tents, but these will be moved to cover within the next few days." this seems to indicate that the tented accommodation shown on the postcards pre dates the closure in Nov 1914 and that when it re-opened it was as a 'permanent' camp, probably of timber. There are five references in FO383 in the on line index to the NA catalogue. Three of these relate to reports including one by the Swiss and one by the Red Cross (in French). One of these reports should indicate the type of accommodation.

The postal address in the list of places of internment states 'Headquarters, Blackdown, Surrey'. This may not relate to the camp itself as it may just be a convenient place to receive post.

Doug

Doug

Thanks for your help on this.

Regards

Phil

[delta]

Blackdown was a parmanant infantry brigade base pre-war.

I have access to a local area map which may help; will check out Frith Hill and come back

Stephen

[rugby-137]

Stephen

Thanks for the offer that would be very helpful, drawing a blank so far.

Regards

Phil

[delta]

Phil

I have checked the 1921 map of the area, which shows Frith Hill but not the camp; however it confirms that the location was to the north west of the main Blackdown / Deepcut infantry barracks site. Unfortunatey the map is behind glass and my attempt to photocopy it came to nought. I was able to confirm the location and

this air photo (which was taken about five years ago), shows the track of Frith Hill Road leading west from the Alma and Dettigen barracks at Blackdown. The ground is shown as rough healthland on the 921 map; it remains the same today with many immature woodland and scrub; the well kept faiways and greens of the golf club to the north being somewhat at variance

Stephen

[hillgorilla]

Is Frith Hill anywhere near Keogh Barracks? The reason I ask, is that I remember being on guard at Keogh, and being told that the house across from the main gate was used for german pows. May just have been the long hours of the night talking, but could it have had soemthing to do with your camp?

[Moonraker]

Is Frith Hill anywhere near Keogh Barracks? The reason I ask, is that I remember being on guard at Keogh, and being told that the house across from the main gate was used for german pows.

Keogh Barracks are about a mile off the southern edge of Stephen's map above.

Moonraker

(who, in 1981, spent 40 minutes driving up and down the locality at night looking for the Lakeside Club, now well known for hosting darts contest. It was a first date - she had tickets for a dance- but it turned out very well despite my appearing a wally.)

[Doug Johnson]

I have a few photographs of the London Scottish camped at Frith Hill in 1912. I might post some if I can find the scans. Presumably the PoW camp was originally either in the same place or nearby. In respect of the house outside Keogh Barracks it is always possible that it was WW2 connected or perhaps even both.

Doug

[delta]

Keogh Bks shown to the south of Blackdown

Stephen

[hillgorilla]

Keogh Bks shown to the south of Blackdown

Stephen

A view of Keogh, which never had, never realised how much open ground there was around the barracks.

[delta]

The local authority is known as the borough of Surrey Heath; those heathlands expands amost as far as Heathrow to the North East and beyond Farnham to the South west (although the Borough isn't quite that big)

Little of the land is good for agriculture being sand hills covered with scrub; hence its use as a military training area.

[bootneck]

Mary Bennett on page 10 of her book ‘The Village Post’ (Camberley, 2002) states that:

“Firth Hill Camp was set up in September 1914 to accept those of German nationality living in the British Isles at the outbreak of war and any Germans taken prisoner in Europe, was situated on open heathland opposite Brompton Hospital. Due to the nature of the land the camp was moved three times after heavy rain, closing down each time while the site was moved and eventually there were separate camps for enemy aliens and military prisoners. One of these was constructed on the road side at Frith Hill.”

In an undated newspaper report of a meeting of Frimley District Council in 1915, attention was drawn to complaints that were being made about the disposal of night soil from the German Prisoners’ Compounds and mention was made that “last autumn this had been a very great nuisance, the effluent running into Jack’s Pond and thence into a ditch. This foetid matter came down and in the interests of the public health of Frimley, it ought to be more carefully watched.” A search of the 1915 OS map found Jackpond Hill to the north of Frith Hill and Brompton Hospital to the northwest of Jackpond Hill. No Jack’s Pond was found, but there is a gravel pit marked on the northwest end of Jackpond Hill and Tomlin’s Pond to the South West.

[themonsstar]

Here is a map of the area of Blackdown Barracks & Frith hill 1921, If you look at the north west of the map you will see Brompton Hospital Sanatorium. South of the hospital are two open areas like football pitchs, this could be the area of the German PoW camp, The PoW camp had two completely separate compounds in 1918 A & B one German & the other Austrians(Hungarians, Galizians,Moravians,Bohemions). The total area of the camp was 640Ft by 180ft & was equipped for 5000 PoWs. The camp was a tented camp and the Pows were sent to work in and around Surrey:

100 PoWs with the Canadian Forestry Corps at Camberley.

8 Pows Maultway House, Camberley.

120 Pows RAF Ascot.

20 Pows Ash Ranges. Ash.

70 Pows C.R.E Blackdown.

50 Pows D.C.R.E Deepcut.

28 Pows C.R.E Bisley.

16 Pows Revolver Range Pirbright.

10 Pows with 8th Bn London Regt.

30 Pows with 19th Bn London Regt.

16 Pows Heatherside Nureries.

The area of the PoW camp now is part of Pine Ridge Golf course, also the Ridgewood Centre (Surrey Heath CMHT) could be part of the old Brompton Hospital Sanatorium on the Old Bisley Road.

When the camp was open in 1914, it had Austrian & German civilian aliens as well as PoWs, at some point in 1915 the civilians were removed to the Isle Of Man & the camp was re-opened after having been closed for alterations, it would now be used for Army & Naval Pows.

I have have about 4 reports on Frith Hill PoW camp for WW1. I have been told that in WW2 it had German PoWs again

[bootneck]

Thank you for enclosing the map, as I have realised that in my last post I said both the Brompton Hospital and the gravel pit were northwest of Jackpond Hill when I really meant northeast.

From another as yet undated and unspecified newspaper, comes the following report from early 1915:

We understand that the concentration camps for German prisoners of war on Frith Hill will be reopened at the beginning of April. The existing compounds are now to be used exclusively for naval and military prisoners, and no civilian aliens will be quartered there as was the case in the autumn and beginning of the winter, when one compound was used for naval and military prisoners, and the other for civilian aliens rounded up in various parts of the kingdom. It was understood to have been the intention of the authorities to enlarge the existing compounds, but we hear that this proposal has been dropped, and that instead a third compound will be constructed on the road side of Frith Hill. None of the prisoners who were previously in Frith Hill, and who were subsequently removed to the Isle of Man concentration camp or placed on board ship at Southend and in the Solent are to be brought back, but the compounds will be used for the accommodation of newly-taken prisoners.

I am aware of the various reports on Frith Hill POW Camp during the war, which always seem to indicate it was composed of tents, as well as the Foreign Office report of 1915 that the Germans were considering reprisals if their POWs were not rehoused from tents to huts. Would it be to much to assume that thoughout its existance Firth Hill was used either as a 'clearing centre' or work camp and that during inclement winter months it might be closed down?

[themonsstar]

As soon as hostilities commenced a PoW camp was established on the plateau of the Frimley Fuel Allotments (see B&W photo) which stretched from Colony Gate towards Frith Hill Reservoir. The Clubhouse of Pine Ridge Golf Course and 4th, 5th 8th & 9th holes are now on the site on which the PoW camp once stood.

Brompton Hospital Sanatorium is now the Ridgewood Centre, & is still there, and also Colony Gate(one of the Gates to the Army Training Area) .

There were 5-8 Army Barracks near to Frith Hill PoW camp around WW1:

Frith Hill side of Deepcut Bridge Road (B3015).

With the advent of air warfare & anti-aircraft operations, Frith Barracks were built on the Western side of Deepcut Bridge Road to house an anti-aircraft brigade of three batteries of Royal Artillery, & a searchlight Battalion of Royal Engineers and a Signals unit. Miles of trenches were dug & some dug-outs incorporated into the training for the sort of Warfare the troops would find on their arrival in France. Around Frith Hill & Chobham Ridge ( what is now the Deepcut area in Surrey)

Frith Barracks. (Royal Engineers)

East Frith Barracks.

West Frith Barracks. (Royal Artillery)

Deepcut/Blackdown side of Deepcut Bridge Road (B3015).

Deepcut Barracks.

Blackdown Barracks. (Alma & Dettingen Infantry)

Aisne Barracks (Blackdown).

You also have an Ex Servicemen Sanatorium for patients suffering from Tuberculosis at Burrow Hill (which is near the Frimley Green side of Frith Hill) called the "Burrow Hill Sanatorium Colony" for Ex Servicemen, it was still there in 1936.