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Remembered Today:

Western Signal Companies (Army troops), Royal Engineers.


Polar Bear

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Hello as this is my first post I will put a (brief) introduction here. I am an amateur (armchair?) military historian currently researching the career of my Grandfather Lieutenant Colonel Clive Whateley Robinson. I am lucky for I have a box file full of his military records and effects. These date from the Second World War and it is his service during the First World War that is causing far more problems. There are many 'tangles' for the sources I have do not agree.

My first question is can anyone give me anyinformation about the Western Signal Companies (Army troops), Royal Engineers. They appear to have been a West Lancashire formation. Were they TA? as I currently suspect. I am having a real hard time finding anything out about them and they are the start of the story.

One of my sources describes them as the West Lancashire Royal Engineers - is this correct?

Any help would be greatly appreciated on this infuriating but fun pursuit. I look forward to any information you might have. I am aware my first post shouldnt be a post asking for aid but this has been bugging me for a year now :angry2: . In the future Im sure i'll require the aid of those who know more than me, but I hope to also help others in any way I can.

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A publication about the West Lancashire Division (T.F.) from 1911 makes reference to the Western Telegraph Companies R.E. Late 1st Lancashire Royal Engineers Headquarters 38 Mason Street, Edge Hill ,Liverpool the Hon Col.is Col.J.F.Robinson and amongst the officers there is a Captain C.F. Robinson. Could this be a family link ?

Unfortunatley my copy of the booklet is a poor photocopy so I cant scan and post the relelvant page but please let me know if you would like a photocopy of what I have and I will send by post.

P.B.

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A publication about the West Lancashire Division (T.F.) from 1911 makes reference to the Western Telegraph Companies R.E. Late 1st Lancashire Royal Engineers Headquarters 38 Mason Street, Edge Hill ,Liverpool the Hon Col.is Col.J.F.Robinson and amongst the officers there is a Captain C.F. Robinson. Could this be a family link ?

Unfortunatley my copy of the booklet is a poor photocopy so I cant scan and post the relelvant page but please let me know if you would like a photocopy of what I have and I will send by post.

P.B.

Thank you very much. I must admit that a family connection makes sense and I did know of the existence of a Col J F Robinson (though not of Captain C F Robinson). I do not know if they are related, but it was a hypothesis I was already wondering for his choice of such a unit at the beginning of the war always seemed strange to me, unless he was already serving in it as part of the TA. He had been in the OTC at school and was from a military background.

My follow up question is does the Western Signals Company/ Western Telegraph Company become the 55th Divisional Signals Company, as attached to the 55th West Lancashire Division. Thats my hypothesis. Anyone know?

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Hello and welcome to the Forum and I hope we're able to solve your problems for you. Further to what has already been posted these were the following signals units which were based in Liverpool(38 Mason Street, Edge Hill, Liverpool), which will concern you;-

Western Air Line Signal Company.

Western Cable Signal Company.

Western Wireless Signal Company.

These were classified as Army Troop units even though they belonged to the Territorial Force and therefore were not attached to Divisions, but higher troop formations. To whom they were attached and what they eventually became I couldn't say, as reorganisation of the R.E.(TF) units may have seen them renamed something else.

Graham.

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Mallory

There is a War Diary, downloadable for a fee,at the NA under piece number WO95/4443 for the period 4/1916 to 5/1917. It is named as Western Force Signal Company Royal Engineers.

You will see that your premise about 55 Div seems to be correct:

http://www.1914-1918.net/55div.htm

if you look at the Engineers attched you will see 55th (and also a previous name for them).

Best wishes

Sotonmate

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According to the Annual Return for the Territorial Force for the Year 1912, there were two kinds of signals units associated with the West Lancashire Division of the Territorial Force. The divisional signal company (known in 1912 as the West Lancashire Telegraph Company) was located in St. Helens. The 'army troops' signal companies, known as the Western Wireless Telegraph Company, the Western Cable Telegraph Company and the Western Air Line Telegraph Company, were located in Liverpool.

Upon mobilisation, the divisional signal company (since redesignated as the West Lancashire Signal Company) remained with its parent division. The three 'army troops' signal companies (which had dropped the "telegraph" from their titles) were, however, separated from the division so that they could provide communications links for formations consisting of a number of different divisions.

(In the years before World War I, the British Army had no army corps. Instead, it had an echelon called 'army (group of two or more divisions)', that, as the name suggests, could consist of two or more divisions, as well as one or more mounted brigades. Upon mobilisation, the Expeditionary Force was formed into two-division army corps, but the Territorial Force retained 'armies (groups of two or more divisions)'. Thus, while 'army troops' units of the Expeditionary Force were often assigned to army corps, those remaining at home were (at least at the start of the war), assigned directly to 'armies (groups of two or more divisions)'.

That's the long answer. The short answer is that the West Lancashire Signal Company became the divisional signal company of the 55th Division, while three Western Telegraph/Signal Companies remained at home. (This, of course, does not mean that none of their members served overseas, only that they did so in other units.)

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  • 5 years later...
Guest Kalafrana

I would be delighted to learn anything more about the Western Telegraph Companies, as my grandfather, Thomas Frederick Lyon, served with them from approx 1900, and was a Sergeant from around 1910. As far as we can establish, he was at the Haynes Park Signals Depot in May 1915, then at the Signal Depot in France in summer 1916, and thereafter with a Light Railway signals unit in the area around Combles in 1917-18. He was awarded the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal and Territorial Force War Medal.

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  • 2 months later...

As Kalafrana states some transferred to Haynes Park near Clophill in Bedfordshire in early 1915 (others to Biggleswade & Shefford ). My Great Uncle was with them in Liverpool and transferred to HP he and many others then were allocated to the MEF. My Gt Uncle was attached to the ANZAC Corps and landed on the 25th April 1915 with the ANZACS at Gallipoli.

I am lucky in that I have his diary for 1915 and many documents and pictures. I also have his medals including the MM.

I have posted some pictures from Haynes Park in my Bedfordshire in WW1 thread in the "Home" section.

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  • 6 years later...

Hi, I find this fascinating. I am trying to research my great grandfather, William Tallon. I understand he was stationed at Mason Street barracks in Liverpool and fought in WW1. My uncle informs me there was a framed photograph of him on a wall at the barracks, not sure if that is family hearsay or genuine. If genuine, I’m assuMing there was a reason he was on the wall. Not sure where to start with the research, any help greatly appreciated.

 Thanks 

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Mason Street barracks was part of a complex of military buildings around the start of WW1. These had links to the Territorial Army, specifically the various units mentioned above. As well as these at least half and possibly (probably?) all of the Lancashire Hussars Yeomanry (Volunteer Cavalry - term used for simplicity) appear to also be based there. Beyond that I can help little.

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  • 3 years later...

502002 Sjt. Algernon William Pritchard, MM

Being a New Zealand resident, I recently received this gentleman's medal group.  Could some kind soul point me in the direction where I might find a citation or reference to the action  for which Sjt Pritchard was awarded the MM.  My only reference is to a Forward Signal Station in Les Glatigenes.  The 9th of April 1918 and beyond appear to have been important in this award.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards, Ian

 

 

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