tullybrone Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 Hi, It’s difficult to search for his Medal Index Card with just a Regiment and Regimental Number as Ancestry gives 12,000+. A name would help. In respect of his motivation it can only be guesswork but if we discount feelings of patriotism perhaps he was a young man with a sense of danger who saw wartime military service in the British Army as an escape from his possibly mundane life or poor home and employment conditions? It would be possible to get some figures on the number of men who were born and lived in the United States and enlisted in the British Army in the United Kingdom from the data in the Soldiers Died in The Great War CD Rom. I don’t have mine to hand. You need to bear in mind that later in the war there was an officially sanctioned U.K. recruitment drive in the U S A. Good Luck Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel9 Posted 21 July , 2018 Share Posted 21 July , 2018 Hi Mr T, As Steve said a name would help to narrow him down. The service number 4892 for a Connaught Ranger has no match in the medal index cards database - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-medal-index-cards-1914-1920/ Are you sure that number is correct? If so that would indicate no overseas service during the Great War. This is possible as 3rd Bn. Connaught Rangers were a a reserve battalion stationed in Ireland and England for the entire war. But most men went to the reserve first before being posted to the overseas battalions after training. As for his motivation there could be many factors so might be almost impossible to ascertain. I wonder if previous service might have been a factor? There were at least two US born men in the 1st Battalion 1911 census - Daniel Collins born in New York and Michael Connolly born in Chicago. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted 21 July , 2018 Share Posted 21 July , 2018 (edited) Here's a better write up ... His name was Foster James Trainor (Trainer), born 11 July 1897 as an American-born citizen (Plattsburgh, NY) and lived in Schenectady, NY, when he joined the Connaught Rangers in 1914. He was in the 3rd Battalion, D Company. He signed up in St. Pancras, London and discharged as a Private in Kinsale, Ireland. His service number was 4892. He is of Irish decent as his grandfather was born in Dublin and died in 1882 in Montreal, Canada. His father was born in U.S. and employed as a machinist at the General Electric Company in Schenectady, NY. What would have been the motivation for him to join the British Army and was it common for American citizens during WW1 to join the British Army (Connaught Rangers)? On the Short Service Attestation form below he answered, Yes, to are you a British Subject. Not sure what that means. Looks also, he may not have been truthful about his age. Foster James Trainer in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 Name: Foster James Trainer Gender: Male Birth Date: abt 1895 Age: 19 Document Year: 1914 Residence Place: Saxton Home, Wells St Whitechapel E Regimental Number: 4892 Regiment Name: Connaught Rangers Form Title: Short Service Attestation Edited 21 July , 2018 by Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 21 July , 2018 Share Posted 21 July , 2018 Hi, I still can’t see him on the Medal Index Cards. His occupation is noted as seaman so I expect his “home” address was a seaman’s hostel in the east end of London near the docks. He clearly had a sense of adventure as indicated in his choice of occupation. My father’s best friend when he joined the British Army in 1937 was an Australian seaman who had “jumped” ship in London and joined up. There was no requirement for potential recruits to prove any of the assertions they made on their enlistment form - it was all accepted as the truth - but if any discrepancies were discovered later the recruit could be disciplined for making a false declaration. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 July , 2018 Share Posted 21 July , 2018 Hi Mr T, 1 hour ago, tullybrone said: I still can’t see him on the Medal Index Cards. His service record shows that he was discharged before seeing any service overseas. 1 hour ago, tullybrone said: His occupation is noted as seaman so I expect his “home” address was a seaman’s hostel in the east end of London near the docks. The record appears to read as Sailors Home, Wells [?] St., Whitechapel E. 1 hour ago, tullybrone said: There was no requirement for potential recruits to prove any of the assertions they made on their enlistment form - it was all accepted as the truth - but if any discrepancies were discovered later the recruit could be disciplined for making a false declaration. He was discharged on 21st March 1915 (intended place of residence 306 Avenue 'B', Schenelady [?], New York, USA under para 392 (ii) of the King's Regulations - 'having been irregularly enlisted'. On his attestation it shows that he claimed to have been a British Subject. A false declaration could lead to discharge under para 392 (viii) - 'having made a false answer on attestation'. Might he have been able to argue the point on the basis of his grandfathers birth place? I don't know what the rules were to claim/apply for being a British Subject at the time. 3 hours ago, Mr. T said: His name was Foster James Trainor (Trainer), born 11 July 1897 That being the case he wouldn't have been 19 years and 2 months old (per his attestation) when he attested in November 1914. So, also a false statement, which could presumably also have resulted in discharge under para 392 (vi) - 'having made a mis-statement as to age on enlistment'. He signed up for General Service for the duration of the war. In 1914 the minimum age for overseas service was 19. When he signed up he would have only been 17. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted 22 July , 2018 Share Posted 22 July , 2018 Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 (edited) I erred and posted this in wrong forum. On the back of this WW1 British soldier's (Jack Spencer) photo are what appears to be references to military campaigns. It looks like from the photo he is a member of The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment, 4th Battalion. Can anyone shed some light on this? Edited 23 July , 2018 by Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 December , 2019 Share Posted 29 December , 2019 Hi, I'm looking for details on my grandfather and have drawn a blank. His name (apparently) was John Joseph Kavanagh and he re enlisted in the Connaught Rangers at the start of WW1. He is not the captain JJK. I know very little about him as he may have lied on his marriage cert as he was a bigamist. Hope someone can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 30 December , 2019 Share Posted 30 December , 2019 Hello Prayner Welcome to the forum There are two things you need to do to get somewhere with your very intriguing enquiry 1. Start a new thread in the Soldiers and their Units sub forum with his name and regiment in the title. That enables forum members to put everything on one thread. If you do not know how to start a new thread , then write that on this thread, and I can start a new one for you. 2. We do need a lot more ino. The Captain is the obvious man, but you say it is not him. There is another JJ Kavanagh who served in Connaught Rangers and Inniskilling Fusiliers as a Private We need his date and place of birth if you know it We need his marriage date and to whom. You say he was a bigamist, whas this the first or secnd marriage. Do you have details of the others Do you have any of his medals, and if so what is written on them I assume he survived the First World War, what happened to him and where did he live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 30 December , 2019 Share Posted 30 December , 2019 (edited) I see you have had an enquiry, but no reply on another forum. You put there, but need to add a bit more for us trying to find details of my grandfather. The relatively certain things about him are:- 1. Born in Ireland 2. Joined Connaught Rangers (possibly twice as he may have reenlisted for WW1) 3. Went to London after the war. 4. Name John Joseph Kavanagh. Now the uncertainties- he married my grandmother but was already married in Ireland and when this was discovered my Gran kicked him out. My mum was quite young and what with not living with her dad, then being evacuated she doesn't know much about him. we have the marriage certificate and he was apparently born around 1887 and his dad was Charles Kavanagh. However as it was bigamy and he was marrying someone a lot younger he may have lied about his dad and his age. My uncle knew a bit more but is unfortunately dead. He did go with his dad to a connaught rangers reunion though. Edited 30 December , 2019 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 2 January , 2020 Share Posted 2 January , 2020 Thank you Corisande. I am away at the moment so these facts are not definitive. He also probably lied on his wedding cert so cannot 100% rely on this. He was born approx 1888. The family myth was that his dad got him out of the army, then the war started and he reenlisted and was promptly disinherited. My mum thinks he was born in Roscommon, (she was never close as he was booted out when the bigamy came to light). His dad was allegedly called Charles and his first wife was Brigitte, not sure of spelling. His second wife was Gladys Goodrich, born about 1908. They met and married in London where he worked for the post office. My mum recalls him as intelligent and educated and also thinks that he may have been a gamekeeper or similar. He possibly had one daughter at least with Brigid who bacame a nun and is probably dead or at least in her late 90s. My mum never met her half sister. My uncle went with him to a CR reunion and met some old friends so I am sure of this part. My uncle also felt he had at least one brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 3 January , 2020 Share Posted 3 January , 2020 (edited) Prayner Having tried and failed to find him, let me say the problem is that nothing cross-references, so my conclusion is that some of your information must be wrong 1. If we start off what seems to be correct, that is he served in Connaught Rangers. 2. You say he could not have been the Capt John Joseph , can I ask why you believe that 3. If he is not the Captain, then either he did not serve abroad (i.e no medal card) or he is Pte John J Kavanagh who served in Connaught Rangers , then in Inniskillings 4. This man was living at 5 St Mary's Square, Cork post WW1 and was born 1882. I cannot tie him to any of your other clues 5. You think your man was born Roscommon. The only possible Irish birth in "Roscommon" town registration district is this illegitimate plain John, no father He could of course have been registered in any other registration district in Co Roscommon, or an adjoining counhty, but if so, I cannot find him 6. Nobody obvious in 1911 census in Ireland 7. Nobody obvious in 1939 Register in England Edited 3 January , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 3 January , 2020 Share Posted 3 January , 2020 Having said all that I have found him in Connaught Rangers in India in 1911 census - Click Ancestry 1911 census Born Ballyforan, Roscommon about 1887. This does fit all your clues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 3 January , 2020 Share Posted 3 January , 2020 Which then gets you two possible births, both in Roscommon, bith in Boyle Reg District, which takes in Ballyforan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 3 January , 2020 Share Posted 3 January , 2020 (edited) One can establish that the John J Kavanagh in 1911 census is the son of James Kavanagh and Onney White His parents had 4 children born in Ballyfornan, James b1890, John b1887, Mary b1885 and Daniel b1884 James b1890 has a British Army Penson card that gives his place if birth as Ballyforan and ex-RIC. The RIC record gives exact dob, and the whole thing fits to show that he came from the same family as John So to sum up, the John J Kavanagh in Connaught Rangers in 1911 census was born 28 Mar 1887 in Ballyforan, Roscommon. Son of James and Onney. I would be reasonably certain that he was your grandfather (even though his father is not Charles) Edited 3 January , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 20 January , 2020 Share Posted 20 January , 2020 I note that the OP has not returned even though he "follows" this thread and gets messages when posts are made I really do not understand why (particularly new) members post queries and never follow them up In the case Prayner has been looking for his grandfather for many years, and as passed out on a chance of getting this information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pegum Posted 20 January , 2020 Share Posted 20 January , 2020 (edited) On re-reading this thread a name caught my eye: Lt. (later, Capt.) C. A. Brett. He figured in my book 'Our Fallen Members. The war casualties of the Kildare Street and Dublin University Clubs'. He was present when Capt. Frederick Lewin (also 3rd Battalion) was injured in a training accident with a bomb-throwing catapult at Preghane, Co. Cork, on 10th November, 1915, and he left a dramatic account of the incident and the evacuation of Frederick Lewin. “The catapult was a wooden affair with strong elastic and a pouch into which the bomb was placed. Fred Lewin, a good friend of mine ... was in charge of the demonstration. It was necessary to wind back the catapult, then place the bomb in the pouch, then light the fuse of the bomb with a match, pull the trigger and let it go. This time, things went wrong. I was about five yards away on top of the trench and saw it all. Fred Lewin lit the match and made to light the fuse which apparently did not light, he fumbled for another match when the thing went off. He was bending over it and took the full blast and was very seriously damaged and the catapult reduced to matchwood. There was of course no first aid arrangements, but Fred’s Talbot car (about a 1911 model, very hard to drive as when you changed gear you had to pick up a stationary layshaft, but I had mastered it) was standing nearby, and I offered to drive him back to hospital at Kinsale, so he was lifted into the passenger seat of the [2-seater] open car and I drove him back over very rough roads just the two of us. But he was dead when we got to hospital and I was very sorry. That was my first, but not my last, experience of sudden death.” In fact, Lewin was not dead; he had an open, depressed, fracture of the skull above the left eye, with obvious brain damage, and a penetrating wound of the right side of the neck. He died in hospital in Cork four weeks later. Michael Charles Brett Frederick Lewin Bomb-throwing catapult Edited 20 January , 2020 by Michael Pegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaillimh1 Posted 1 June , 2020 Share Posted 1 June , 2020 This gives the date as Dec 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jervis Posted 27 June , 2020 Share Posted 27 June , 2020 On 20/07/2007 at 23:19, mhifle said: Hi, I found this in the 3rd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers War Diary for April/May 1916, entitled The Irish Very Interesting. But why is there a war diary for the 3/Connaught Rangers? I thought there were no war diaries for HOME battalions. Jervis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJH Posted 13 August , 2020 Share Posted 13 August , 2020 On 20/07/2007 at 23:19, mhifle said: Hi, I found this in the 3rd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers War Diary for April/May 1916, entitled The Irish Rebellion: Regards Mark Mobile Column No.1 26 Officers and 558 other ranks left by route march for Crosshaven from Kinsale 11:30 pm 25 April 1916. Made up of 4 Companies. Lieutenant Colonel A J Digan DSO, Commanding Major H M Hutchinson DSO Lieutenant T Cheadle Adjutant Captain A G Moutray Commanding No.4 Company Captain I H Garvey Commanding No.2 Company Captain J J Kavanagh Commanding No.3 Company Captain J Tasker Commanding No.1 Company Lieutenant H M Swifte Transport Officer Lieutenant P Mc Bride Supply Officer Lieutenant C A Brett Machine Gun Officer 2nd Lieutenant W Minch Signalling Officer 2nd Lieutenant S P Reed 2nd Lieutenant R T Roussel 2nd Lieutenant P D Low 2nd Lieutenant W L Tolputt 2nd Lieutenant J A Sheridan 2nd Lieutenant J F B O’Sullivan 2nd Lieutenant S B Minch 2nd Lieutenant G A McDowell 2nd Lieutenant J F Desmond 2nd Lieutenant J M Forbes 2nd Lieutenant C W B Fitzgerald Captain J D’Arcy joined Column 29 April 1916 2nd Lieutenant L G D’Arcy joined Column 29 April 1916 Below attached to 3rd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers served with the column Captain C B Pearson RAMC Medical Officer 2nd Lieutenant E R Clarke 10th East Surrey Regiment 2nd Lieutenant R L Osborne 14th Battalion Royal Fusiliers 2nd Lieutenant D L Lowns? 16th Battalion Royal Fusiliers Proceeded to the Fota Estate via Queenstown and encamped on Lord Barrymore’s demense. 1 section of Royal Field Artillery attached to the column 26 April 1916 Column strengthened by 2 Officers and 12 other ranks of the Royal Engineers and one 4.7” gun and complement of the Royal Garrison Artillery 27 to 28 April 1916 Entrained for Wexford. 29 April 1916 Arrived Wexford and encamped outside the town. Detachment of 70 other ranks of the South Irish Horse under Lieutenant Colonel Lord Wicklow, a half composite battalion of the 4th Battalion Royal Irish Regiment, 4th Battalion, The Connaught Rangers under Major Willington, and a detachment of the Young Officers Company were attached to the Column 30 April 1916 Column marched to Killurin the concentration point for the attack on Enniscorthy. The rebels had meanwhile surrendered at the old uprising Battle Site at Vinegar Hill and the town was reached at 3 pm where the column went into camp on the Show Grounds. Captain C D O,Brien-Butler Adjutant 4th Battalion Royal Irish Regiment took over the duties of Staff Captain to the column. 1 May 1916 2 Officers and 50 other ranks of the 3rd Battalion The Connaught Rangers acting in conjunction with the Royal Irish Constabulary under District Inspector H R Heggart arrested 56 prominent rebels in the town 2 May 1916 Surrounding countryside was patrolled in all directions 3 May 1916 Two companies, 250 men under the command of Major H M Hutchinson proceeded to Ferns 4 May 1916 Reached Gorey and encamped in the grounds of Sir George Errington’s residence 5 May 1916 Whole force returned to Enniscorthy 8 May 1916 The column left for New Ross 9 May 1916 118 rebels were arrested at Enniscorthy and a small quantity of rifles, shot guns and other arms were handed in. 1-9 May 1916 New Ross searched 9 May 1916 Waterford searched 10 May 1916 The Column left for Dungarvan remaining one night at Kilmacthomas 12 May 1916 The Column arrived Dungarvan 13 May 1916 The Royal Irish Constabulary in all the towns were adverse to any further arrests being made or a house to house search for arms as the majority of the people were not in sympathy with the Sinn Fein movement. The Column left Dungarvan and spent the night in camped at Ballymacarberry 15/16 May 1916 Reached Clonmel 16 May 1916 Search at Clonmel resulted in capture of 3 Winchester 303 rifles and 8 persons were arrested. The Column dispersed with the various detachments rejoining their units. 20 May 1916 4 Officers and 100 other ranks of the 3rd Battalion The Connaught Rangers under Captain I H Garvey left at Clonmel to strengthen the garrison there and rejoined the Battalion some days later. No. 3 Mobile Column formed with 20 Officers and 350 other ranks on 6 May 1916 Made up of 3 Companies. Major O F Lloyd Commanding the Column Captain F M S Gidson Adjutant Captain N S B Kidson Commanding No.1 Company Lieutenant L C Badham Supply Officer Lieutenant J H R Dickson Commanding No.2 Company 2nd Lieutenant M D O’Rorke Commanding No.3 Company 2nd Lieutenant M J B Davey 2nd Lieutenant R H French 2nd Lieutenant F K Cummins 2nd Lieutenant W A Ussher Transport Officer 2nd Lieutenant R F Lenane 2nd Lieutenant E H Huggard 2nd Lieutenant F W S Jourdain Signalling Officer 2nd Lieutenant A Ribbons Lieutenant B P Young RAMC Medical Officer 40 Officers and other ranks of 2/4th London Regiment (London Scottish) 2nd Lieutenant W Hamilton Joined column at Bandon 9 May 1916 2nd Lieutenant A Ribbons Joined column at Bandon 9 May 1916 Proceeded with 1 machine gun to Bandon, the point of assembly for the Column. Here they were joined by 2 Officers and 50 other ranks on detachment duty there and 4 Officers and 100 other ranks of the 2/4th London Regiment (London Scottish) with 2 Lewis guns. 6 May 1916 The Column remained at Bandon until 11 May 1916 During this time raids were made on houses of suspected persons resulting in the capture of 23 rebels and a number of shotguns and pikes as well as a quantity of equipment and blasting powder. The Column proceeded to Clonakilty where the London Scottish Company left for Rosslare. Raids in this district resulted in the capture of 10 rebels and various articles of equipment 11 May 1916 The Column moved to Rosscarbery where they were joined by 2 Officers and 39 other ranks of the South Irish Horse and 1 Gun and complement of the Royal Field Artillery 15 May 1916 Marched to Skibbereen 16 May 1916 Raids made in Skibbereen and the surrounding district resulted in the capture of 3 rebels, a quantity of Sinn Fein Literature, 1 rifle, 2 shotguns, 1 revolver and a small supply of ammunition. The Column moved to Bantry via Ballydehob and remained one day 22 May 1916 Bantry was reached 24 May 1916 Police did not require any arrests to be made at Bantry. The details from South Irish Horse and Royal Field Artillery proceeded to rejoin their units 26 May 1916 The Column returned to Kinsale 27 May 1916 HEADQUARTERS Mobile Column No.1 left for Crosshaven. Lieutenant Colonel A J Digan, DSO Commanding 11:30 pm 25 April 1916 2nd Lieutenant H E Bevis and 25 other ranks left Headquarters for Waterville to reinforce the detachment there. Returned to Headquarters 3 May 1916 Mobile Column No.3 proceeded to Bandon. Major O F Lloyd, Commanding 6 May 1916 2nd Lieutenants R H French and U A Moore with 50 other ranks proceeded to Bandon where they captured 7 rebels, some rifles, as well as a quantity of ammunition and equipment. They were absorbed into the No.3 Column 6 May 1916 Lieutenant L C Badham MC with 30 other ranks operating from Headquarters made 2 raids on houses of suspected persons in the Kinsale district on 4 and 5 May 1916. 11 rebels were arrested and 2 Lee Enfield rifles, 5 shot guns and a quantity of ammunition and equipment seized. The detachment at Crosshaven moved to Kinsale and the 4th Battalion The Connaught Rangers took over from them. 6 Officers and B, E and K Companies arrived at Charles Fort, 22 May 1916 A redistribution of the 3rd Battalion, The Connaught Rangers companies took place at Kinsale 24 May 1916 In Barracks Kinsale: C, D, H, K, and L Companies In Charles Fort: A, B, C, E, F, G and I Companies A decrease in strength of the Battalion, with a resulting reduction in the number of companies. I Company disbanded 30 June 1916 K Company disbanded 29 July 1916 L Company disbanded 25 Aug 1916 I am currently researching a memorial to the men of 3rd Battalion of the Connaught Rangers, who died in Kinsale from 1914 to 1917. How can I get access to the diary of the battalion . Here are the list of names on the memorial 5788 C OMR Sergeant P Maher 6/12/1915 5/625 Sgt E Malone 17/2/1918 3/5461 Lance Corporal W Greenwood 10/11/15 4247 PT P Casey 2/2/1915 3/6021 PT T Campbell 13/6/1915 8398 PT M Walshe 1/2/1915 4613 SGT P Bolger 1/11/1917 7828 Lance Corporal J O’ Neill 15/4/1916 10990 P O’ Brien 19/3/1916 7791 PT J McCann 8/11/1916 3/5083 PT A Mc Guigan 16/6/1915 5036 PT M Sanaghan 8/12/1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJH Posted 13 August , 2020 Share Posted 13 August , 2020 On 28/12/2007 at 14:36, kinsalegreg said: Hi Mark Fascinating posts. My grandfather - Sergeant Frederick Baker - was made orderly room clerk at Kinsale for the 3rd Battalion in April 1914. I wonder if he knew your great grandfather. I have a 1910 newspaper clipping of the sergeants of the 3rd Battalion with Lt Col Inglis - taken at Renmore Barracks. I guess your grandfather might be on that ? Have you any photographs on which my grandafther might appear ? Also the Mobile Columns - very many thanks for this post. Two things: I did not know a war diary existed for the 3rd Battalion - where is it located ? Also I have a postcard from Frank Begley to my Grandfather - it is dated May12 1916 and is posted from Kilmacthomas to my grandfather back in Kinsale. As your post demonstrates Begley was with the Mobile Column which stayed that night in Kilmacthomas. Interestingly the post card was a picture postcard with the picture entitled The Irish Rebellion May 1916 and showing damage to church street - it had reached Kilmacthomas ready for dsale within 12 days ! Kinsalegreg I live in Kinsale currently researching a memorial to Rangers who died in the town from 1914 to 1917, have you any more info on your grandfather's time in the town? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJH Posted 13 August , 2020 Share Posted 13 August , 2020 On 20/01/2020 at 10:18, Michael Pegum said: On re-reading this thread a name caught my eye: Lt. (later, Capt.) C. A. Brett. He figured in my book 'Our Fallen Members. The war casualties of the Kildare Street and Dublin University Clubs'. He was present when Capt. Frederick Lewin (also 3rd Battalion) was injured in a training accident with a bomb-throwing catapult at Preghane, Co. Cork, on 10th November, 1915, and he left a dramatic account of the incident and the evacuation of Frederick Lewin. “The catapult was a wooden affair with strong elastic and a pouch into which the bomb was placed. Fred Lewin, a good friend of mine ... was in charge of the demonstration. It was necessary to wind back the catapult, then place the bomb in the pouch, then light the fuse of the bomb with a match, pull the trigger and let it go. This time, things went wrong. I was about five yards away on top of the trench and saw it all. Fred Lewin lit the match and made to light the fuse which apparently did not light, he fumbled for another match when the thing went off. He was bending over it and took the full blast and was very seriously damaged and the catapult reduced to matchwood. There was of course no first aid arrangements, but Fred’s Talbot car (about a 1911 model, very hard to drive as when you changed gear you had to pick up a stationary layshaft, but I had mastered it) was standing nearby, and I offered to drive him back to hospital at Kinsale, so he was lifted into the passenger seat of the [2-seater] open car and I drove him back over very rough roads just the two of us. But he was dead when we got to hospital and I was very sorry. That was my first, but not my last, experience of sudden death.” In fact, Lewin was not dead; he had an open, depressed, fracture of the skull above the left eye, with obvious brain damage, and a penetrating wound of the right side of the neck. He died in hospital in Cork four weeks later. Michael Charles Brett Frederick Lewin Bomb-throwing catapult Wow actually 3/5461 Lance Corporal W Greenwood 10/11/15 was killed in the incident. LC Greenwood was from 21 21 Robertshaw St Leigh Lancs, he was married to Jane Greenwood. I am currently researching a memorial in the town which contains all the names of the men killed in the town during the time the 3rd Batt was there from 1914 to 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pegum Posted 14 August , 2020 Share Posted 14 August , 2020 JJH has been in touch, and I am sending him a full account of the incident. As well as Lewin and Greenwood being killed, another officer and four men were injured. I see that Frederick Lewin's name is not on the memorial. Perhaps it was because he died in Cork, not in Kinsale. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJH Posted 14 August , 2020 Share Posted 14 August , 2020 13 hours ago, Michael Pegum said: JJH has been in touch, and I am sending him a full account of the incident. As well as Lewin and Greenwood being killed, another officer and four men were injured. I see that Frederick Lewin's name is not on the memorial. Perhaps it was because he died in Cork, not in Kinsale. Michael The accounts in the papers never mention that he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Pegum Posted 15 August , 2020 Share Posted 15 August , 2020 (edited) The funeral was in the Cork Examiner, 11 December, 1915. The caption reads "The death of Captain F. H. Lewin, of the 3rd Connaught Rangers, took place in the City on Thursday, as the recult of a bomb accident at Kinsale on 10th November, through which a Private also lost his life. Captain Lewin was in charge of a party of men who were practising bomb throwing, when one of the bombs exploded.He was a member of the Irish Bar, and volunteered for active service at the outbreak of the war. He was the owner of considerable property in the West of Ireland, and was well known in sporting circles all over the country. The remains were on yesterday afternoon removed from a Cork Hospital to the Protestant Cathedral, an imposing display of full military honours being accorded. The procession marched through the City, and the passing of the body was reviewed by the citizens with deep respect and sympathy. Inset represents the late Captain Lewin, from photo by Lafayette, Dublin. The building shown is at St. Patrick's Place, Wellington Road, Cork, and looks much the same now, on Google Earth, as it did then. Edited 15 August , 2020 by Michael Pegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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