Taking no prisoners

[dekenai]

regarding the geneva convention. It wasn't until after WW1, (and because of all of the above posts) that a convention on the treatment of prisoners was formed (1929). The previous conventions dealt only with the treatment of sick, wounded on land and at sea.

So no-one could have been prosecuted against the convention. Again this leads to what now constitutes an illegal order.

The AIF dealt rough justice to enemy combatants who were slow to surrender.

dekenai

[truthergw]

This thread has covered a bit of ground but I think it suggests that a man who surrendered was not safe until he was off the battlefield and into the cages. Personally, I am always amazed at reading of the numerous instances where a machinegun crew has held on to the last moment and than surrendered. The fact that they were allowed to in what seems to have been the majority of cases speaks volumes.

[PBI]

I would also think that some German Officer POWs were "Offed" simply for displaying Arrogance to their Captors,i have read Accounts where some Higher Ranking German Field Officers would only agree to surrender to their Equivelant Opposite Number or Higher,but in the Heat of Battle,the PBI could not be bothered with this messing about and simply Shot the Officer,and as an afterthought, would have almost certainly "Rummaged" the Body for Loot.Sad but true.

[Guest tafski]

a question

is it myth or truth that german soldiers found with saw back bayonets on them were executed straight away

tafski

[PBI]

According to Hollywood it was Bruce.Check out "All Quiet" the modern Remake,there is a Scene where Kat is inspecting the latest Draft of Under Age Cannon Fodder,and asks them to show Him their Bayonnets,all of which are Saw Backed..His Comment was " If Frenchy finds you with these,They will ploop your Eyes Out,and fill the holes full of Saw Dust".!!!!....no smoke without Fire Methinks....I wonder what the Germans made of the British Issue Jackknife,with its Spike on it !!...Happy Days Bruce.

[truthergw]

I heard about these bayonets when I chatted to veterans of the war. I would first like to hear, was there such a thing, was it used or issued ? Assuming that there was such a thing, I am fairly sure there was no instruction to kill men armed with one. That means men did it off their own bats and we are into the realm of anecdote and hearsay. Men may have done it and subsequently denied it. Other men who had never seen one may have claimed to have done it. There is just no reliable means of sorting truth from half truths and downright lies.

[SiegeGunner]

German bayonets with a saw-blade on the back edge regularly come up in the Arms, Equipment, etc, subforum. They were designed, I believe, for use by pioneers and the like. Bootnecks is the man to tell us all about them.

[Guest tafski]

I heard about these bayonets when I chatted to veterans of the war. I would first like to hear, was there such a thing, was it used or issued ? Assuming that there was such a thing, I am fairly sure there was no instruction to kill men armed with one. That means men did it off their own bats and we are into the realm of anecdote and hearsay. Men may have done it and subsequently denied it. Other men who had never seen one may have claimed to have done it. There is just no reliable means of sorting truth from half truths and downright lies.

tom saw back bayonets did exist i believe it was a pioneer bayonet but i may be wrong

tafski

[PBI]

Firstly Tom,the Bayonnet was an Issue Item,the Saw Back,simply being a Saw for use in different Field tasks,there are some on Display in the IWM.I must admit that i have not come across cases of Men being Slotted simply for carrying One.I am sure that in the early Days of WW1,the British media would have Exhibited this type of Bayonnet as an example of Hun Frightfullness,but as the War progressed,the PBI would have realised what the Saw Back was really for,simply a Tool.As a Fighting Weapon i suppose some Soldaten would have used it,but owing to its Length it could have proved difficult to use in a very close quarter situation.Dum Dum Bulletts,and Soft Nose Ammo would have provoked an entirely different reaction from Troops on all sides.

[PBI]

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

Here We Go.

[hooge1]

I heard about these bayonets when I chatted to veterans of the war. I would first like to hear, was there such a thing, was it used or issued ? Assuming that there was such a thing, I am fairly sure there was no instruction to kill men armed with one. That means men did it off their own bats and we are into the realm of anecdote and hearsay. Men may have done it and subsequently denied it. Other men who had never seen one may have claimed to have done it. There is just no reliable means of sorting truth from half truths and downright lies.

In the past i have seen one of these types of bayonet in the DLI museum i presume they still have it on display.

As for the killing of those who have surrendered i think the majority would have thought the enemy at the end of the day were just in the same position, trying to survive.Some would show compassion others rage and others indifference.Whilst taking trenches the situation would be fluid and the killing of those who would put there hands up would be quite a regular thing.Once captured i think it would be unusual but not out of the question that killing of POWs went on.But it would suprise many that even the most pleasent of people in peace time can be capable of such acts in war, but are usually unlikely to talk about it after.

[truthergw]

Thanks guys. It is always nice to have confirmation. My post stands then. NickC, I think we are in agreement. The thing to bear in mind I suppose is that a man offering to surrender is not the same as one who has had his surrender accepted. There is a time lapse when one man has put his hands up and the other has yet to decide what he is going to do. The surrendering man is very vulnerable at this juncture. Emotions will be running riot and adrenalin pumping. The soldier with the initiative, be he attacking or defending, may not be fully rational.

[Michael Johnson]

I would also think that some German Officer POWs were "Offed" simply for displaying Arrogance to their Captors,i have read Accounts where some Higher Ranking German Field Officers would only agree to surrender to their Equivelant Opposite Number or Higher,but in the Heat of Battle,the PBI could not be bothered with this messing about and simply Shot the Officer,and as an afterthought, would have almost certainly "Rummaged" the Body for Loot.Sad but true.

Second War, I know, but I had a friend whose father was in the Fusiliers Mont Royal in Normandy. They captured a German officer (Bavarian) who tried the "I will not surrender except to an officer of equal rank." line. The FMRs were getting a bit fed up, and started swearing in French. Now French Canadians and Bavarians both use religious swear words, and the words are close enough that he realized that he was on shaky ground and surrendered. If he hadn't...