Drivers Royal Field Artillery

[Gunboat]

I raised this question when I first joined the forum no one knew the answer, we have had some new members since then so I will try again if people dont mind.

My Grandfather (see avatar) was a Driver in the RFA

If you study the pictures of 18 pounders there are six horses to a gun team with three mounted riders and two men who ride on the limber (in the RHA all men were mounted on horses)

Were all the men who rode on horseback designated as drivers or was it just the man who lead the leading pair of the team?

[montbrehain]

Pure Guess, But I feel that all would be drivers and be able to replace each others positions as needed. Saying that I would also like to bet that any man in connection with the gun would be able to operate in any position ? (at least they would be taught this in basic training) a Totally guess though "MO"

[CSMMo]

In my research there were two categories of drivers. There were ASC drivers whose sole job was driving the horses and were found in the Ammunition Columns. Then there were Gunners as drivers whose assignment was as a gun team driver, but who were also trained as gunners to enable them to function in that role. There were two instances (at least) of a gun team of the Brigade I am researching being atritted down to one man by enemy counter battery work who kept the gun firing alone until his gunners as drivers (and others) came up to fill up the gun positions for the remainder of the mission (in the true spirit of the artillery).

Yes - the men on horseback in the gun teams were designated drivers.

Mike Morrison

(p.s. - I just read this post and realized that I should have said "designated as drivers" rather than "designated drivers" which leaves this post vulnerable to far too many bad jokes!)

[squirrel]

And those who "drove" the GS wagons (one per 2 gun section) were also designated as drivers.

[Gunboat]

Mo and Mike

Thanks for the replies they were very helpful...

I have my grandfathers records and he was trained as a gunner before specialising as a driver so he could certainly replace other members of the the gun crew.

When he first was first called back to the colours from the reserve at the very outbreak of war he served in the Brigade Ammunition Column after a spell in hospital he was transferred to a battery. I know he did two the guns at some stage because after tracing that he was in RFA from nothing more than the picture and gettng his records my sister recalled him telling her when she was a little girl that he used to tow the guns (if only she had remembered it at before the effort

[sjustice]

And those who "drove" the GS wagons (one per 2 gun section) were also designated as drivers.

I also think that every "young 'un" was automatically designated a driver when they joined an experienced battery along the lines of:

"There are your two horses"

"But I'm a gunner"

"Well you're a bloody driver, now!"

Kind Regards,

SMJ

[Muerrisch]

I am not an artillery expert, but the Field Artillery Training manual 1914 says that each driver was responsible for two horses. Also the number of gunners per battery was almost equal to the number of drivers.

This leads me to believe that each gun team had three drivers [one per pair] and five gunners, one of whom would be the bombardier. More senior ranks rode individual horses. Remaining drivers and a few gunners would be with the ammunition wagon.

I expect we have a resident expert with the relevant war establishment.

Of course, none of the above suggests that gunners could not ride, nor that drivers could not serve the piece.

[KONDOA]

Grumpy is correct so far as my research goes.

A driver with the battery had two horse and harness to care for.

"I also think that every "young 'un" was automatically designated a driver when they joined an experienced battery

My research also shows that men already skilled in handling heavier horses were specifically directed to the artillery and were not that young. The horses varied in stature depending if it was RFA or RGA.

Roop

[montbrehain]

I know at least 1 Gunner who cant ride me! "MO"

[KONDOA]

Thats a pistol not a gun!!

[montbrehain]

KONDOA, Go on say it..... "MO"

[KONDOA]

Thats better

8" Mk I-V near Fricourt

[squirrel]

As the heavy battery BSM said to the 18pdr BSM when they were stopped on a road waiting to move up, "Get them cap badges out of the way and let the guns come through".

[sjustice]

"I also think that every "young 'un" was automatically designated a driver when they joined an experienced battery

My research also shows that men already skilled in handling heavier horses were specifically directed to the artillery and were not that young. The horses varied in stature depending if it was RFA or RGA.

Roop

'lo Roop,

In this instance I was using the term "young 'un" to refer to newbies/rookies/greenhorns and not not, necessarily, their ages. Probably wasn't the best choice of phrase in the context of this forum.

Cheers,

SMJ

[Gunboat]

Grumpy is correct so far as my research goes.

A driver with the battery had two horse and harness to care for.

"I also think that every "young 'un" was automatically designated a driver when they joined an experienced battery

My research also shows that men already skilled in handling heavier horses were specifically directed to the artillery and were not that young. The horses varied in stature depending if it was RFA or RGA.

Roop

Thanks to everyone who has contributed

What has been said ties in with the facts surrounding my grandfather. The 1901 census has his and his father's occupation as Carters so he weas experienced in handling draught horses. When he signed up in 1907 it is likely he was directed to the artillery for that reason, notwithstanding that he had to undertake a specialist driving course before receiving the desigantion of Driver.

I think it unlikely that a "young un" would be assigned automatically as a driver because handling and controlling horses in that type of environment would not have been a task for the inexperienced. I could well imagine however that a new recruit joining a battery would probably be "encouraged" to muck in (or should that be muck out with some of the more routine animal husbandry and maintenance of tackle.

[sjustice]

'lo Gunboat,

Here's the specific example I'm referring to:

"I said I wanted to be a gunner so I was trained as a gunner. Others wanted to be drivers and they were trained in the riding school. I arrived in France in midwinter and the first night I was billeted in a hayloft above farm animals. At six o'clock next morning the Sergeant came to me - a newcomer in the battery - and said, 'These are your two horses.' I replied, 'I'm not a driver, I'm a gunner.' To which his reply was, 'You're a bloody driver now.' So that's the way the army does it. For over six months I had two horses, and most of the time a sore bottom. I had only been on a horse a few times in my life."

Gunner 25038 Albert Stokes, 13 Bty, NZ Field Arty, 3 Bde

Memoir, IWM

I'm always willing to stand corrected, but I don't see why it would be different in the RFA.

Kind Regards,

SMJ

[ttd0]

An interesting topic. My Gt Gt Uncle worked with horses before the war and went into the Royal Field Artlillery as a Driver.

[SFayers]

My granddad and his cousin, both horsemen on a farm before the war, went into the Royal Garrison Artillery. Both were officially designated as gunners - though I know my granddad drove horses pulling guns at various times. I guess rolls were pretty much changable depending on circumstances and a man's training / experience.

cheers

Steve

[Chalkhill Blue]

Hi Gunboat.

My grandfather was an Old Contemptible and a gun-team driver in the RHA.

Although of the same rank as the drivers on the ammunition column, my impression from my own research is that the gun drivers would certainly have been the most experienced and skilled riders. Controlling a team of six horses pulling about a ton of gun would have, I'm sure, been a more specialised and demanding job than we have perhaps given credit for on this thread And that's in the best of circumstances, never mind once the horses were exposed to shellfire.

From front to back the gun drivers were known as the 'lead', 'centre' and 'wheel' driver.

Bryan

[KONDOA]

Excepting NCO's etc all ranks were gunners in the RA but some gunners were drivers. RGA units had four drivers to a gun section.

Roop

[Muerrisch]

Excepting NCO's etc all ranks were gunners in the RA but some gunners were drivers. RGA units had four drivers to a gun section.

Roop

But why then [from memory] was the establishment of an RFA battery 75 gunners and 70 drivers? [or 75 drivers and 70 gunners!]. This is not to say that drivers could not serve a piece, or that gunners could not ride a horse. KR and Pay Warrant both provide for RA ranks of Gunner and Driver, all paid 1/2.5d per day except RHA, where the gunner received 1/4- and the driver a penny less.

[Chalkhill Blue]

Quite so, Grumpy.

My grandfather appears on the 1914 Star medal roll as 'Driver'

Bryan

[Gunboat]

But why then [from memory] was the establishment of an RFA battery 75 gunners and 70 drivers? [or 75 drivers and 70 gunners!]. This is not to say that drivers could not serve a piece, or that gunners could not ride a horse. KR and Pay Warrant both provide for RA ranks of Gunner and Driver, all paid 1/2.5d per day except RHA, where the gunner received 1/4- and the driver a penny less.

would the differential in pay for RHA gunners be down to the fact that because they too were mounted that they had resposnibility for a horse and tackle as well?

[squirrel]

IIRC some of the RFA gun crew, perhaps all, were mounted as well.

[Chalkhill Blue]

would the differential in pay for RHA gunners be down to the fact that because they too were mounted that they had resposnibility for a horse and tackle as well?

The higher pay for both drivers and gunners in RHA compared with RFA may well have had something to do with their different role. RHA batteries were brigaded with cavalry units. With their lighter 13-pounder QF Mk1 guns, they were trained to pull the guns at a gallop and across open country. There is a dramatic clip of film of a RHA gun-team in training in France in 1918 which features the gun being drawn over a bank and into a field. The gun literally takes off as it hits the bank.

In one of his programmes, Richard Holmes describes the RHA gun-teams as amongst the finest horsemen in the country.

Bryan