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Remembered Today:

Local lads.. To include or not?


Steve Newman
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Ok Chaps, bit of a dilemma for me!

Having thought I had finished compiling all the local names for our local roll of honour I found myself searching for any family or remote link of a problematic WW2 man. During my search around the local village cemetery I found three family graves that had additional details of WW1 sons lost. The question is do I now include these men and search out their stories which then opens the question when to stop, as at least one of them shows his residence as nearby Nevendon and if I include him surely I should include all the other men from that neraby Hamlet.

The men in question are Lce/Cpl J.T.B Moon of the MGC who is shown as having been born and enlisted in London with no place of residence recorded. His family graves however show local connections going back prior and post WW1 and include the exact details of his death and 'loving son of....'

The next is Pte Percy Hart, of the Essex Regt. He is shown as having been born in Nevendon, enlisting in Stanford (some 12 miles away) and residing in Nevendon. His family graves appear to be that of his parents and record his birth and date death in F&F. This is all in Runwell Church some 3-4 miles away from Nevendon.

The last is an officer, so SDGW doesn't help as much so any help on his place of birth or residence gratefully received. He is in the MGC and KIA 21/3/18. His family grave is also that of his parents who both die post war (1930') so it is conceivable that they moved in some time after the war and he has no true local connection.

So all in all what do to? Is being mentioned in the local village church enough to include them or should I stick to those that are either on the memorial, in the local papers as being from here or in SDGW as either residing, enlisting or having been born here?

Would welcome anyones views as to the criteria they have used?

Cheers

Steve

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Ok Chaps, bit of a dilemma for me!

The question is do I now include these men and search out their stories which then opens the question when to stop,

Cheers

Steve

For me the answer is easy and that is a resounding YES, I would not like to think that someone could go un-remembered because I had not added him to my research.

As to the second part of the question, I don't think any of us can, will or do ever stop our research becomes addictive.

Regards

Andy

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I would add them and have done with 29, soon to be 31, men who aren't on my local war memorial.

What's it going to hurt by including them?? Who else will remember them?

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Hi Steve,

I think its how far you want to go.

We had the same dilemma when we were putting together Cravens Part In The Great War website. (see link) .

Not only did we include CWGC & SD information newspaper articles, and war memorials, we decided to include all CWGC buriels in the area and any private memorial inscriptions we found whilst searching the local cemeteries.

Quite a lot of the men found in the original book had tenuous links with the Craven area, so that really set the tone.

Not only that but their were four of us all working on differnt parts of the project ( still are !!!.) and that makes life a lot easier.

I think time is your biggest issue, but I would include them

Regards

Chris

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Steve - you've hit on the dilemma that confronts all memorial reearchers at some point. There's no precise answer, just go with your feeling. As Anthony says, what's it going to hurt by including them? You might find a recent thread of Anthony's of interest too: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...mp;#entry714931

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Hi Steve,

Thanks for posting your dilemma, and helping me clarify what I hope to achieve with my researching. Seems to me it is a journey that surprises, delights and frustrates and you never quite know what is round the corner - Not a lot of option but to continue :) . Did I mention rewarding and obsessive?

Cheers

Shirley

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War memorials, for whatever reason, usually don't include everyone who might be included based upon their being local. Our three local memorials recognise about 70 men from the three villages and the "satellite" villages/hamlets associated with them. There are at least another half dozen, possibly 12 or more who died in the First War, and who were either born in the area, or lived there, and who are not recorded.

I am sure this situation is repeated probably in many other places, if not everywhere. It is best to record them, and feel a warm glow at remembereing otherwise forgotten men.

Onwards then.....

Anthony

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My view is to be as inclusive as posible. I have for example included a Belgian whose family were evacuated to the Bury area during the war. He received an obituary in a local paper so I have put him on our site.

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Thanks for the opinions, which to be honest mirror my own.

The only reason I ask on these three is that whilst all the other non memorial men I have added have through some source appeared to have a local connection, even a German who is KIA fighting with them appears in the paper so I have added him. There appears to be no direct connection to either Wickford or Runwell but to other 'local areas', and if I cast the net even wider to include all of them it will never end. That said I guess them appearing in the local church yard gives them a local connection other men from further afield clearly don't have, so on that basis I guess they are 'different' and should be included.

My only other problem is timescale as I am desparate to get this book out for November to allow us a full years fund raising and building time to facilitate all the improvements and repairs needed to the memorial in time for the 90th armistice.

So I can see a posting asking where the units were and is anyone visiting any of these graves/memorials coming very soon!!

Cheers

Steve

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I defined my area of interest as the area covered by the main Holme, Holmfirth and New Mill War Memorial, and then decided to include:

Anyone named on any of the ten smaller war memorials within that area.

Anyone born within that area who died from war related causes.

Anyone resident within that area who died from war related causes.

Anyone buried within that area who died from war related causes. (This includes a Canadian who died at the local cottage hospital.)

Anyone who was a member of the pre-war Holmfirth Territorial Company who died from war related causes. (This includes three men from neighbouring villages outside my defined area of interest.)

Most of the men who died are on the main memorial anyway, but I felt I needed a clear list of who is to be included otherwise there is a real danger that the research area will just continue to spread and never be finished.

Tony.

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Memorials were ad hoc social constructions and this is reflected in your dilemma

As we look today we make the same social constructions, simple

We all have people who dont appear or are found. Was that for a reason? did the family want them remembered?

This in turn causes another dilemma, should they be on there regardless of family wishes. I am guilty of that as I feel all should be remembered and if names arent there then I want to know why

John

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Memorials were ad hoc social constructions and this is reflected in your dilemma

As we look today we make the same social constructions, simple

We all have people who dont appear or are found. Was that for a reason? did the family want them remembered?

This in turn causes another dilemma, should they be on there regardless of family wishes. I am guilty of that as I feel all should be remembered and if names arent there then I want to know why

John

Indeed! Particularly your last comments. My reasoning is that with the passage of time, they can all come in from the cold, and someone somewhere is remembering them, this is a good legacy from a horrible war. That is what I love about this Forum :) .

Cheers

Shirley

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Aplogies fornot putting up the name of the officer.

He is Robert David Hancock, 2/Lt 24th Bttn MGC (Infantry), KIA 21/03/18

Steve

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Personally I would say add them on, I am researching the men from my local parish, rather than my village (see link below in signature to site). Every time I think I have everybody someone else turns up, usually men born in the Parish but enlisting elsewhere. I am only too happy to put them on, I must confess to have turned into a reseach 'jinkie'. Re memorials I have seen some men on 3 or even 4 memorials (don't have a problem with that) and currently I have one Ukranian chap who served with the RGA whom I am trying get put on the village memorial as he has been missed completely.

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Aplogies fornot putting up the name of the officer.

He is Robert David Hancock, 2/Lt 24th Bttn MGC (Infantry), KIA 21/03/18

Steve

Steve, Only one Robert David Hancock on FreeBMD registered in Hackney qtr ending June 1892. Several Robert Hancocks (no D) on Ancestry.Co London area, but being a Northener I know nowt about areas of London. Counties of Essex and Kent are mentioned, if you want I can put them all up for you. Regards Ralph.

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Hi Ralph

Thanks for the offer and be very interested to see any details on any of them that may help solve quite what his local connection is?

Cheers

Steve

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Hi Ralph

Thanks for the offer and be very interested to see any details on any of them that may help solve quite what his local connection is?

Cheers

Steve

Steve, Here we are : ROBERT HANCOCK BORN APPROX 1893 IN STOKE NEWINGTON SON OF MIRIAM AND JAMES (odd coincidence the same names as my sister and brother-in-law)28 GLOUCESTER RD IN 1901

ROBERT H HANCOCK BORN APPROX 1893 IN PLAISTOW SON OF JOHN AND MARY H HANCOCK 200 BALHAM ST IN 1901

ROBERT S HANCOCK BORN APPROX 1893 IN BRIXTON

ROBERT C HANCOCK BORN APPROX 1893 IN HARBLEDOWN KENT SON OF SARDIUS AND MARY J HANCOCK

Ancestry always gives born dates as approx. I think the first is your man, only a guess. Cheers Ralph. ps anything else let me know.

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Cheers for that Ralph

I will go back down to the church yard and take the parents names which should confirm if 'Man 1' is indeed him and will update the thread tonight

Thanks

Steve

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Steve, Have you solved your man " Moon" can check his details if you want them. Ralph

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Hi Again Ralph

To be honest the more info the better!! I have decided to add them to the roll despite this meaning I now have to re lay out the WW1 Chapter that I thought was finished but there you go ho hum, so now they are in I need to find out as much as possible to make their entry worthy of their sacrifice.

Cheers

Steve

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Steve, James T Moon (no B ) on Ancestry son of Elizabeth A Moon born Northfleet about 1895 16 Newcommon Rd Sheerness sister Elizabeth F mother born Erith in 1873. Father not listed at home, perhaps he was a soldier/sailor unless his name is on the family headstone I cannot find him, too many by this surname. Ralph.

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Percy E Hart son of William and Mary A Hart born Nevendon about 1894 of Cranes Farm Nevendon father was a farm bailiff born 1865 mother born 1866 Alice,Arthur, Edith, George R, and Rosetta the other children.

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I went back and looked again at the graves.

For Moon it says son of James Edwin and Thirza Moon, its on the same memorial but on the north side its says '...and also in loving memory of 2/Lt R.B Hancock Kia 21/3/18. Quite what the connection is between Moon and Hancock is, I have a horrible feeling likley to be one of those mysteries we never know. Cousins, school friends, family friend or perhaps even a straight WW1 conection, them both being MGC??? I'm sure there is a story there.

For Hart is says son of William and Mary, so that appears to fit nicely.

Is there any MGC experts around who may be able to help with where they were serving at the time?

Cheers

Steve

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