Paul Treclyn Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Amongst the papers of Pte Ben Noot of the RAMC is a list detailing all the places and units he'd been involved with from Sept 1914 until May 1918 (when I think he transferred to the Wiltshires). His longest period in any one place appears to have been in Salonika, to quote his own list (and the spellings of the underlined placenames are my best guess as to what he has written as the list is on several rather tatty pages from an old notebook); 1916 Apl 3 Arrived Salonika Apl 4 Went to Karaissi Apl 5 Joined 27 CCS Lembet July 17 Went Lahana Sept 12 Went Dental Ward 1917 June 18 Left Dental Aug 5 Left 27CCS Aug 5 Arrived Mirova Aug 6 Left Mirova. Arrived Paprat. & joined 32nd F Amb Aug 7 Went to B section Fountain Hill Aug 25 Left Fountain Hill Aug 26 Arrived Paprat 3am Aug 26 Left Paprat arr Mirova Aug 27 Left Mirova arr 54 Kilo Aug 28 Went 27CCS Aug 29 Left 54 Kilo arr Uchante Sept 12 Left Uchante. Boarded HMT Huntspill My question is based on this list. Can anyone suggest a detailed map of the Salonika theatre of operations that will show me where the places named above are located? I can find Lahana and Lembet on some maps, but the rest are a mystery to me at the moment. Also, what is the significance of the "54 Kilo". I note in some other sources that reference is made to Kilo 67 etc as placenames in Salonika. Are they some sort of waymarkers along roads or something? Excuse my ignorance! I attach a photo of the Dental Unit staff at the 27th CCS, who are: Back Row L-R: Ben Noot, Lester, Zobell, Lord, Bedford Seated: Lt Fraser, Capt Boyle Front on ground: Fred Harry, E Townsley Dental Surgery in background (cropped out of this to reduce file size - but its just a big tent really!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhclark Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Hello Paul. I'm no expert, but it so happens that today I've been trying to find information on the Salonika Campaign. I've Googled until my fingers are sore. From what I've found so far, which is not much, "kilo" is indeed short for "kilometre" and refers to distances along the Salonika-Seres road. See http://www.1914-1918.net/milnes_first_despatch.htm which may give a few clues. See also http://www.salonika.freeserve.co.uk/ although this is not the detail that we require. I cannot find some of the places either - I suspect that they may be Macedonian names that are now known as something else. My interest is the 2nd/13th London Regiment, and I've just ordered a book that covers their part in the Campaign. But it won't arrive for a few days. I'll see what else I can dig up and watch for any further replies to your post. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 A rushed answer 'cos we're off to the airport in 2 hours for our hols! Karaissi was on the edge of Salonika about halfway between the docks and Lembet Camp, east of the road. The area is now the suburb of Neapoli (approximately). It would have been opposite (i.e. across the road) from the main French and Serbian camp at Zeitenlick (Stavroupoli). Mirova (now Elliniko) is about 6 miles in a straight line WNW of Lahanas (on Google Earth Lahanas: 40.962180 23.204235, Elliniko/Mirova: 41.001305 23.106668). Paprat (Pontokerasia) is another 6.5 miles (direct) NNE of Elliniko (Google Earth: 41.086617 23.138183). Ushanta (is how my Great Uncle Percy spelled it on one of his postcards) was west of Salonika on the Vardar road near Dudular (now Diavata, GE: 40.670588 22.805981). Hope this helps! Yes, the Kilo names were kilometre marks along the Serres road. Go here http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm and download the Salonika (Szaloniki) section 41-41.jpg. It has all the old Bulgarian and Turkish names. Must go and finish packing now! Will look in again over my hols if possible. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Not a great deal of detail on this picture, but Ushanta was somewhere here: On the back, Percy wrote: View on the Salonica - Monastir Road taken 2 miles S of Salonica looking NNW, and overlooking Harman Road, Dudular and Ushanta. Taken from Mound of 224 M.T. Snap by Cpl. Wilson, Aug. 1919. Harman Road Station 28 General Hospital Greek Ordnance Army Service Supply Depot Now I really must be going! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 22 June , 2007 Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Adrian! Many thanks for the link to those maps (40-41 and 41-41). I have been looking for these for some time now. As the unit I'm researching was a Mountain Gun Brigade, they were moved all over the Salonika front, including being given the task of supporting Greek troops at one point. These maps will help me make more sense of the War Diaries and correspondence. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Treclyn Posted 22 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2007 Thanks for all those useful tips - its a lot to look through, but will certainly help me get a better insight into the letters Ben wrote home from Salonika. Truly grateful. And I thought that I was the only one who posted emails while the family sat outside ready to go on holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam85Liv Posted 22 October , 2008 Share Posted 22 October , 2008 Anyone interested in the Salonika Campaign of WW1 should seek out a book called 'The Gardeners of Salonika'. Alan W. Palmer was its author and it was published in 1965 by Andre Deutsch Ltd. It describes the campaign in considerable detail. About four years ago a book appeared in the bookshops called 'The Eagle's Eye' (I think I have remembered the title correctly), and this too was excellent. A search of bookshops might reveal copies still for sale. My father was a Signaller in the Royal Artillery and spent four years out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakefield Posted 23 October , 2008 Share Posted 23 October , 2008 It was 'Under the Devil's Eye - Britain's Forgotten Army at Salonika' by myself (Alan Wakefield) and Simon Moody. It has now sold out and we are in the process of getting the rights back from The History Press (successor to Suttons) as they appear to have no interest in republishing it! By next January it will be in our hands again and we'll be off to other publishers. Btw - for anyone interested in the Salonika Campaign have a think about joining the Salonika Campaign Society, I'm the current Chairman. It gets you in touch with others with a similar 'obscure' interest! We oproduce 2 magazines each year and hold a meeting in London each October. The SCS has also organised tours of the Salonika battlefields. Anyone interested send me a PM with your postal address and I'ss pass on details along with a copy of our magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Treclyn Posted 23 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 October , 2008 I've been looking forward to reading Under the Devils Eye for some time now. I actually ordered it from Amazon a few months back, a birthday present to myself, but remarkably and inexplicably it never arrived and they never took the payment! No idea what glitch caused such a thing to happen. So now its on my Christmas list! I just hope that there will still be copies out there by then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awakefield Posted 23 October , 2008 Share Posted 23 October , 2008 Paul I think the only copies of 'Under the Devil's Eye' listed on Amazon now will be with the secondhand dealers. The printrun sold out 18months or so ago. As I said, Simon Moody and I are working on getting it out with another publisher in the New Year. Regards ALAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam85Liv Posted 24 October , 2008 Share Posted 24 October , 2008 Alan, Only just found your reply as I've been away from the site. Sorry I misremembered the book title. Excellent book and I am personally grateful to you and your co-writer for writing it. Sadly I have - inexplicably - mislaid my copy and I am waiting for it to turn up! I have recently established that my father was a Signaller in the RGA and spent the period 1915 - 1919 in Salonika. Are you aware of the existence of any War Diaries that might be of relevance, please? Samsson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lainybird Posted 29 October , 2008 Share Posted 29 October , 2008 My G.Uncle was in Salonika with the East Surrey Regiment and sadly died in 1916 of dysentry and heatstroke (as did so many) he is laid to rest in Struma Cemetry, I was able to acquire part of The East Surreys War Diary from June 1st- July 15th 1916. If anyone would like copies you are very welcome , or perhaps if it isn't too complicated I could post them on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam85Liv Posted 2 November , 2008 Share Posted 2 November , 2008 It may interest some to know that there is currently a thread on the BBC's 'Timewatch' messageboard entitled 'Where was Grandad in Salonika 1915-19?', and a Greek gentleman has a lot of thought-provoking things to say about his country's side of things. Might be worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River97 Posted 19 November , 2008 Share Posted 19 November , 2008 For what it's worth, There is a fair bit of detail about part of the campaign in the History of the 60th Division (2/2nd London Division) It's written by Colonel P.H. Dalbiac. I purchased a copy from the Naval & Military Press about a year ago as my great grandfather served in the Division. Cheers Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirrawee Posted 29 December , 2008 Share Posted 29 December , 2008 My G.Uncle was in Salonika with the East Surrey Regiment and sadly died in 1916 of dysentry and heatstroke (as did so many) he is laid to rest in Struma Cemetry, I was able to acquire part of The East Surreys War Diary from June 1st- July 15th 1916. If anyone would like copies you are very welcome , or perhaps if it isn't too complicated I could post them on this forum. Lainy, my grandfather (Ernest William Smith) was granted a Temporary Commission as 2nd Lieutenant with the 9th East Surrey Regiment 10 Mar 1915 and posted to the 5th Battalion Connaught Rangers 22 Feb 1916. Would it be possible to see if he is, by any chance, mentioned in The East Surreys War Diary? Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akduerden Posted 6 January , 2009 Share Posted 6 January , 2009 Thanks for the offer. I have just found the societies website and was thinking of joining - you have convinced me! I am researching my grandfather who was a 2/Lieutentant in the RFA and was in Salonika Campaign. His name is Louis Francis Eggleton (Regimental No. 47350). I have some documents relating to his demobilisation in 1920, photos and have his Medical Card from TNA. My problem is I don't have a clear understanding of which unit he belonged to as his Protection Certificate states his Theatre of War and Command as France, 715th Brigade and Last Served 33rd Brigade (which is part of 8th Division). I can't find anything on 715th Brigade. Family recollections have him at battle of Somme (I am guessing the 2nd battle), being gassed, getting malaria in Salonika and his complaining of the long retreat over the mountains to Greece. Anybodies help will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 6 January , 2009 Share Posted 6 January , 2009 Family recollections have him at battle of Somme (I am guessing the 2nd battle), being gassed, getting malaria in Salonika and his complaining of the long retreat over the mountains to Greece. If he was at the Second Somme then he would have gone to Salonika and been in one of the units brought back to Europe as experienced reinforcements/replacements in mid-1918 so it is possible but the impression I get from "Under the Devil's Eye" (Alan Wakefield & Simon Moody, 2004, but out of print) is that these were infantrymen rather than artillerymen. If he had been at the First Somme and wounded, as my Grandfather was, he could have been moved to Salonika in 1917. The long retreat could then have been the withdrawal of troops from Dedeagach back to Salonika in the late autumn of 1918, after the armistice had been signed with Turkey. That is supposed to have been a very unpleasant experience. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akduerden Posted 7 January , 2009 Share Posted 7 January , 2009 If he had been at the First Somme and wounded, as my Grandfather was, he could have been moved to Salonika in 1917. The long retreat could then have been the withdrawal of troops from Dedeagach back to Salonika in the late autumn of 1918, after the armistice had been signed with Turkey. That is supposed to have been a very unpleasant experience. Keith Thanks Keith. The withdrawal of troops from Dedeagach back to Salonika could fit the families recollection and gives me a further avenue to explore. I am wondering whether "Under the Devils Eye" mentions anything about the two unit numbers I have - 715th or 33rd Brigade RFA? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 7 January , 2009 Share Posted 7 January , 2009 The Devil's Eye lists the British forces in Salonika in March 1917, when they were at their strongest, so it isn't definitive but mentions neither of your numbers. I've just looked at the National Archives Catalogue and 33 Brigade RFA never went to Salonika nor did 33 Brigade RGA. There is no 715 Brigade listed of any kind. On the other hand, UDE does list the 115 Brigade RFA, which was in 26 Division, and I wondered whether the first 1 had been misread as a 7 but, as I read the book, they didn't take part in the march back to Salonika, being sent north to the Danube by rail. It can't be a misread 215 Brigade, either, because they were in the Middle East. For completeness, here's the list of RFA Brigades in Salonika in March 1917 from UDE: 22nd Div: 98, 99, 100 & 101 Brigades 26th Div: 114, 115, 116 & 117 Brigades 60th Div: 301, 302 & 303 Brigades 10th Div: 54, 57, 67 & 68 Brigades 27th Div: 1, 19, 20 & 129 Brigades 28th Div: 3, 31, 130 & 146 Brigades GHQ : 20, 37, 56 & 75 Heavy Groups; 3 & 4 Mountain Brigades As he's an officer his service records should have survived and there's only one L Eggleton listed at TNA, in WO 339/99410. Is this what you already have? If not that's your next port of call. Going by his service number (and I've no idea about how they worked for officers!) he must have enlisted as a Regular. My Grandfather was 57659 and he enlisted in June 1909, for example. Eggleton must have received at least the War and Victory medals if not one of the Stars so I'd suggest you try and get a copy of his medal index card, which will give some idea of his units. My Grandfather's only lists 35 Brigade RFA, though, so they're not foolproof as you'll see from my signature. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akduerden Posted 7 January , 2009 Share Posted 7 January , 2009 As he's an officer his service records should have survived and there's only one L Eggleton listed at TNA, in WO 339/99410. Is this what you already have? If not that's your next port of call. Going by his service number (and I've no idea about how they worked for officers!) he must have enlisted as a Regular. My Grandfather was 57659 and he enlisted in June 1909, for example. Eggleton must have received at least the War and Victory medals if not one of the Stars so I'd suggest you try and get a copy of his medal index card, which will give some idea of his units. My Grandfather's only lists 35 Brigade RFA, though, so they're not foolproof as you'll see from my signature. Keith Thanks Keith. The service record is the one for him as the former reference number matches the number on the Officers Medal Roll. I will order it. I have got his Medal Index Card but it only says RFA. He was entitled to VM, BWM and 15Star - I have my Aunt in England searching for them now. There are a range of other numbers but they don't mean anything to me. I have attached a copy - not sure if you can help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 8 January , 2009 Share Posted 8 January , 2009 I have got his Medal Index Card but it only says RFA. He was entitled to VM, BWM and 15Star - I have my Aunt in England searching for them now. He did very well, starting as a Gunner and becoming a 2nd Lieutenant by the time he was placed on the Reserve, but I wouldn't bother your Aunt too much The card says that the medals were returned in 1921, at the time they were being sent out. That may have been because they were sent to an old address, though, rather than by his rejection of them. There are a range of other numbers but they don't mean anything to me. I have attached a copy - not sure if you can help... He gets the 14-15 Star because he doesn't get into a War Theatre until 19th September 1915. As I understand it, the country quoted on the card is his place of "qualifying" service, i.e. his first active service out of the UK was in France. I'm no expert at this but the most obvious candidates for him are the 22nd and 26th Divisions, which went to France in September 1915 and are the only ones I can see at The Long Long Trail going out to France at that time that also went to Salonika. The 22nd took part in the return flog from Dedeagach to Salonika that looks to fit the long retreat of your family tradition. The RFA Brigades in the 22nd don't match the numbers you're quoting but I can't think of another Division that fits the other facts as well. Another LLT link shows that they took part in the retreat from Serbia in 1915, another and possibly more likely candidate. Interestingly, the 26th Division did not take part in that retreat nor in the pull back to Salonika after the Armistice. Not quite QED but not bad, I think. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akduerden Posted 9 January , 2009 Share Posted 9 January , 2009 He did very well, starting as a Gunner and becoming a 2nd Lieutenant by the time he was placed on the Reserve, but I wouldn't bother your Aunt too much The card says that the medals were returned in 1921, at the time they were being sent out. That may have been because they were sent to an old address, though, rather than by his rejection of them. He gets the 14-15 Star because he doesn't get into a War Theatre until 19th September 1915. As I understand it, the country quoted on the card is his place of "qualifying" service, i.e. his first active service out of the UK was in France. I'm no expert at this but the most obvious candidates for him are the 22nd and 26th Divisions, which went to France in September 1915 and are the only ones I can see at The Long Long Trail going out to France at that time that also went to Salonika. The 22nd took part in the return flog from Dedeagach to Salonika that looks to fit the long retreat of your family tradition. The RFA Brigades in the 22nd don't match the numbers you're quoting but I can't think of another Division that fits the other facts as well. Another LLT link shows that they took part in the retreat from Serbia in 1915, another and possibly more likely candidate. Interestingly, the 26th Division did not take part in that retreat nor in the pull back to Salonika after the Armistice. Not quite QED but not bad, I think. Keith Thanks Keith. I have started a new post under the Soldiers forum as I feel I am taking this post in the wrong direction. I will post a response there... under EGGLETON LF Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shawsofdevon Posted 30 October , 2009 Share Posted 30 October , 2009 My G.Uncle was in Salonika with the East Surrey Regiment and sadly died in 1916 of dysentry and heatstroke (as did so many) he is laid to rest in Struma Cemetry, I was able to acquire part of The East Surreys War Diary from June 1st- July 15th 1916. If anyone would like copies you are very welcome , or perhaps if it isn't too complicated I could post them on this forum. Hello, I have just come across this forum site, and found the postings about Salonika. My grandfather was in the East Surrey Regiment and was also in Salonika in 1916. I would be very interested in seeing the East Surrey's War Diaries - how would be the best way to go about this? Thanks in advance. Tricia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 30 October , 2009 Share Posted 30 October , 2009 Welcome to the Forum Tricia. Would will need to venture to the National Archives at Kew to inspect their war diary. Your grandfather would have served with the 2nd Battaion: 2nd Battalion August 1914 : in Chaubattia, India. Returned to England, landing Devonport 23 December 1914. December 1914 : moved to Winchester and attached to 85th Brigade in 28th Division. Landed at Le Havre 19 January 1915. October 1915 : moved to Egypt and went on to Salonika, arriving 1 December 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 31 October , 2009 Share Posted 31 October , 2009 Tricia, A PM or email to lainy would make contact and you could ask for a copy of what lainy has - click on the members name to find their profile. You may find you need a (small) number of posts before you can use PMs and the like, however. Are you aware of the Salonika Campaign Society> They can be found at http://www.salonika.talktalk.net/ and the website is due for a major overhaul in the next month or two. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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