Uniform Identification

[Muerrisch]

It rather looks as if a very strong stance pooh-poohing photographers props and dress-ups has taken a hit.

 

NEVER SAY NEVER.

[FROGSMILE]

Just to reinforce the point about it being a mock up photo, as well as the missing button and other aspects already mentioned there’s also the glaring fact that good conduct badges were formed from white worsted herringbone tape and not the single width gold braid that’s traditionally used for line rank badges, as is seen on the photo.  Basically it’s a fake soldier.

 

Edited 10 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

It rather looks as if a very strong stance pooh-poohing photographers props and dress-ups has taken a hit.

 

NEVER SAY NEVER.

 

Yes ......... without doubt Cosway Studio's (Aberdeen) rather shabby collection of Gordon Highlander (Aberdeen) themed cast offs. 

 

This style of photo was never composed to deceive or be taken seriously.  Both examples probably simply record the subject's desire to visualise a Scottish affinity ......... and to make the photographer a few bob. 

 

Here's another example of similar.................. nice spats ....... don't think they'd pass muster.

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 January , 2021 by TullochArd
Photo - Marway Militaria, Winnipeg

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

 

Yes ......... without doubt Cosway Studio's (Aberdeen) rather shabby collection of Gordon Highlander (Aberdeen) themed cast offs. 

 

This style of photo was never composed to deceive or be taken seriously.  Both examples probably simply record the subject's desire to visualise a Scottish affinity ......... and to make the photographer a few bob. 

 

Here's another example of similar.................. nice spats ....... don't think they'd pass muster.

 

He’s also wearing a commissioned officer’s doublet going by the gilt bullion shoulder cords and rank star!

Edited 10 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Muerrisch]

The subject of worsted herringbone GCBs is slightly complicated by what PVCNs 1907 and 1914 say and don't say. This is a digression from the studio portraits, but may be of interest.

 

They make provision for gold GCBs on scarlet and on blue, up to 6 bar. These are not for Household troops, dealt with explicitly separately. Neither are they for Foot Guards bandsmen. These latter do indeed have 6 bar gold GCBs, but they are even more expensive than the ones already identified.

The Vocabs also go on to provide what I take to be standard period worsted GCBs for scarlet and blue, as illustrated by Frogsmile, and notes that they are for tunic and for frock.

 

My working hypothesis is that the gold/scarlet and gold/blue were for the bandsmen of line infantry and cavalry. As it was the practice for bandsmen to often have a "second" tunic  we may be hard pressed to find examples of gold GCBs in collections [the second tunic probably made do with worsted,] or sufficiently identifiable in photographs. I have no such photo to show.

 

On the other hand, perhaps these entries are clerical errors, a survival from past glories. However, the Victorians and Edwardians were meticulous record keepers.

[FROGSMILE]

Usage by bandsmen makes sense, just as they received sergeant quality full dress tunics.  I’ll have to keep an eye out for images.  I cannot recall any offhand, but more images that I’ve seen are not bandsmen so it’s more difficult to draw a sound conclusion.

[Ron Abbott]

1st Bn. Mix & Match Highlanders. 

 

The sporran and cantle badge.....I think it's from the old 6th Volunteer Battalion, Gordon Highlanders.

 

As for the second photo with the same background and uniform. Presumably he was a bit of a trend setter and fashion guru, given the wearing of a wrist-watch.

[Andrew Upton]

7 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

It rather looks as if a very strong stance pooh-poohing photographers props and dress-ups has taken a hit.

 

NEVER SAY NEVER.

 

There was an excellent and very similar pair of post cards sold separately on Ebay some time ago that also provided strong evidence in my opinion that in the period the photographers dressing up box certainly could include military uniforms. Both cards taken by Alexander Huber of 120 Princes Street in Edinburgh and marked accordingly to the reverse. Both cards clearly taken on the same day, utilizing the same background and the same piece of furniture in the same place. Two different men featured individually, both clearly wearing the same wrinkled doublet with embroidered Seaforth shoulder titles remaining but the collar badges removed and the too-tight collar left unfastened. Both wearing the same creased gaiters with what appears to be the same hose and shoes, plus what appears to be the same glengarry (lacking badge). Both wearing the same somewhat scruffy sporran. It can be seen they are wearing different kilts, but given the doublet appears a generally baggier fit on the one who got what appears to be the matching Mackenzie tartan kilt I presume the other guy got whatever was larger and would fit...

 

[FROGSMILE]

I believe that Scottish highland ‘costume’ (for that’s what it is) was rather exceptional in this regard and wearing items of full dress in a studio in Scotland should not be conflated with dressing up in odd items of drab khaki service dress, as has invariably been the case in other incidences.  This obsession with the Scottishness of highland dress as a marker of national identity is well known, and something connected with a social fashion created by Sir Walter Scott and embraced as a form of romanticism by Queen Victoria.  In essence it is a phenomenon all of its own and I entirely stand by my comments in connection with other, non-Scottish  scenarios, as I think most, discerning people, understood.

Edited 11 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

9 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

....."Both wearing the same somewhat scruffy sporran." ..... 

 

I agree with all you say Andrew only to add but I'd add that both are wearing the same somewhat scruffy CIVILIAN sporran." ..... you have provided another good example of a period trend.  I still believe, "This style of photo was never composed to deceive or be taken seriously.  Both examples probably simply record the subject's desire to visualise a Scottish affinity ......... and to make the photographer a few bob." 

 

I have to stand by Frogsmile in his general (not specific to you) comment "should not be conflated with dressing up in odd items of drab khaki service dress, as has invariably been the case in other incidences." ......... or perhaps worse still doing so to actually deceive by misrepresenting actual service, rank or medallic recognition as has been the case in other instances.

[Muerrisch]

Not that photographers prop boxes stopped at Hadrian's Wall.

Most discussions on SD dressing up have centred on canes, which were most definitely uniform, although they tend to be less common in portraits taken in F and F.

Headdress swapping has been another theme .... just about possible but unlikely.

I always end up in the Never say Never camp ...... each case on its merits.

PS  my earliest studio portrait age 3 has me clutching, reluctantly, a Teddy definitely not mine, by the look on my chops.

[Andrew Upton]

1 hour ago, TullochArd said:

 

I agree with all you say Andrew only to add but I'd add that both are wearing the same somewhat scruffy CIVILIAN sporran." ..... you have provided another good example of a period trend.  I still believe, "This style of photo was never composed to deceive or be taken seriously.  Both examples probably simply record the subject's desire to visualise a Scottish affinity ......... and to make the photographer a few bob." 

 

I have to stand by Frogsmile in his general (not specific to you) comment "should not be conflated with dressing up in odd items of drab khaki service dress, as has invariably been the case in other incidences." ......... or perhaps worse still doing so to actually deceive by misrepresenting actual service, rank or medallic recognition as has been the case in other instances.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with the "deceive or be taken seriously" idea. But it has been previously stated as to being unlikely (to the point of non-existence) that photographers would have access to old military uniforms at a level to even enable that sort of level of deception to be attained to any degree of realism, whereas in the case of Alexander Huber the opposite was clearly true. Probably 95% of what they are both wearing appears to be genuine ex-military kit, and some care seems to have been taken to make it at least roughly match the Seaforth jacket (even if a little accuracy and some degree of fit is sacrificed in the process). I cannot imagine Huber was unique in this respect, even if his location probably meant there was a more distinctive Scottish emphasis than most.

[FROGSMILE]

There’s no doubt that the Aberdeen studio was a focus for this fakery.  As well as the numerous photos shown in this thread, I recall a similar case of I think three men all appearing in a single photo wearing such nondescript items of uniform when it was known and clearly recorded that at least two of them were local fishermen.  I think it mentioned that they did also serve on minesweeping trawlers taken up from trade, or a similar such activity. It would be interesting to see if it was the same studio involved.  In all cases the items of uniform were from highland regiments full dress.

Edited 11 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE