Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

Sign in to follow this  
Andrew Smith

RAeC Aviator's Certificates

Recommended Posts

Andrew Smith

G'day All,

Have any of the Pals travelled to Hendon RAF Museum and had a look at these certificates? Are they accessible?

I believe that nearly all of the WW1 RAeC's are there. This may be another source of information and a chance to obtain copies of photographs of the Australians that served with the RNAS/RAF/RFC and the AFC for that matter that I don't have.

I know a few of you are writing books regarding WW1 aviation and are having trouble obtaining photos, so this may be a avenue for you.

Regards,

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pete Wood

Hi Andrew

I've seen some early ones from 1914 and earlier. I don't know if they were still doing photos later in the war.

I'm sure that there is a chunk missing from 1915(?), which the archivist said had been loaned out years ago - but no one knows to whom :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeW

Hi Andrew,

good Chrismas mate?

At least one complete album went "missing" and is not at Hendon, and I believe it to be buried in the Imperial War Museum. It was criminal that this source was split up!

Whilst the certificates are a good source of photographs, and copies are available at very reasonable prices, they are ostensibly completely out of the question for a normal author to use them in a book - there is a little thing called a "reproduction fee", you'll know all about that from the Australian War Memorial, if the photograph is to be used in a book they will demand a reproduction fee per photograph, that probably will ammount to half the income from the book.

To give you an example, I was recently quoted a reproduction fee of £200 from "Flight" magazine to use one (not very good) photograph. As I reckon the total income from the book will be lucky to exceed £500 I was forced to decline their offer!

Of course, I believe there are ways around this obstacle which I would not dream of putting into print here B)

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrew Smith

Thanks Rt and Mike,

Mike I had a great Christmas, I hope you and yours had a great one also.

It is a shame regarding the certificates, I never will understand the shoddy practices of some organisations in the past, perhaps the IWM will "find" them one day.

As for the reproduction fee, I understand that Hendon only has them on loan and that the Royal Aero Club Trust actually owns the certificates. Who is getting the money???

The Royal Aero Club Trust website is located at;

http://www.royalaeroclub.org/trust/trust.htm

Regards,

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pete Wood

Andrew, if you want to sob your heart out - just write to the Royal Aero Club and ask them where all their history files are......

There is almost nothing left. The club had a few nasty splits/arguments in the 1960s and 1970s. I tracked down their last 'paid, and knowledgeable archivist' who retired in the 1980s. This man is now in his 80s, sharp as a pin, and bitter as hell about what happened to all this stuff.

The archive was mostly auctioned off, and the remainder dumped/burnt.

I got, for my Christmas pressie, a year's subscription to the Royal Aeronautical Society. This allows me to 'free' access (otherwise it's £15 per day) to the R Ae S archives which I am told has many early treasures; only one archivist so, if he's on his holidays, the place is shut......

Gatwick Airport also has a small library with photos of many war time pilots who went into commercial flying careers. Now they really are friendly - and much happier to do cost-effective deals; it's free to visit and you can read early copies of Flight et al all day. They prefer personal visits, rather than requests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrew Smith

G'day RT,

I am always gobsmacked when I read of situations like the one you wrote of.

The AWM has had similar experiences in its past, such as the torching of WW1 aircraft because the cost of keeping them was too high, this was in the 1930's but I still get angry everytime I think of it.

I noticed on the website of the Royal Aero Club Trust they are after another archivist, but it is a voluntary position. I hope that the Trust get a person who is of the right calibre.

Regards,

Andrew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeW

Andrew,

regarding the fees, I don't know who gets them as I've never actually paid any - You normally have to sign a disclaimer to say you won't use then in a publication, though they will, I believe, waive the reproduction fees if you are writing for a journal like C&C Itl.

The Hendon fees are more reasonable than those of the Imperial War Museum or Flight for that matter. I often wonder how much the IWM charged Brad King for the use of their photographs in his Hikoki book "The Royal Naval Air Service" -- hmmm there doesn't seem to be a "tongue in cheek" smiley to insert here!

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrew Smith

Mike,

I am sure Brad paid the same as you or I would pay :rolleyes:

Andrew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeW

Andrew,

Just to show that I hadn't got anything better to do, I just added up the number of IWM images used in Brad's book and found the total to be 162 (approximately). At 2004 prices you or I would have to pay a reproduction licence fee of something over £9400.00. That of course doesn't include the cost of purchasing the images in the first place.

Now if the book sells to the public at £25.00, Hikoki probably sell it to the distributors at, oh, let's guess £10. So the author, assuming a standard contract, will get £1.00 per book Assuming there were no other expenses, 9396 copies have to be sold for the author to break even - I don't think WW1 aviation books normally sell in that sort of quantity.

Brad must get one hell of a staff discount! :D

I think I should say that I'm not trying to get at Brad, he's just unfortunate that I used his book as an example. My gripe is with the grossly "over the top" reproduction licence fees charged by some museums - it's as if they don't want their images to reach a wider audience.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Andrew Smith

Don't worry Mike,

The AWM is no different, that is if you ever get the stuff you ordered, I am still waiting for most of the photos i ordered for you as well as stuff from August 7, 2000.

Brad sure took one hell of a loss on that book ;)

Andrew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...