Colonel Fawcett

[Lorne40]

I am writing a biography of Colonel Percy Harrison Fawcett who went overseas on September 15, 1915, with the 25th Division of the Royal Field Artillery. He commanded the 158th Brigade from June, 1916, including operations in the Somme, after which he was transferred to Heavy Artillery and commanded the 48 Heavy Group. He was appointed Counter Battery Staff Officer of the 6th Corps in February, 1917, and fought in all the operations of the 3rd Army in 1917 and 1918. He held that appointment until demobilization. Fawcett was awarded the DSO and was four times mentioned in dispatches for bravery. How can I find out why he was awarded the DSO and why he was mentioned in dispatches? Also, apart from "Tommy" and "Battle Tactics of the Western Front" does anyone know of Fawcett's war service being mentioned in any other books? Thank you in advance.

[Stebie9173]

Fawcett's DSO was in the King's Birthday Honours of 1917 - No citation published.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Is this the same Percy Fawcett who was lost in the Brazilian jungle in 1925 whilst exploring?

The Times notes that his remains were believed to have been found in 1951, but this was later disproved.

Steve.

[Lorne40]

Fawcett's DSO was in the King's Birthday Honours of 1917 - No citation published.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Is this the same Percy Fawcett who was lost in the Brazilian jungle in 1925 whilst exploring?

The Times notes that his remains were believed to have been found in 1951, but this was later disproved.

Steve.

Steve: Yes, that's right - no citation published. But surely there must be a citation somewhere? Yes, this was the explorer. Body never found. William

[wainfleet]

Just wondering if this bio ever got written. Fawcett was described by a fellow officer (cited in "Tommy") as "the nastiest man I ever met"!

I wonder if he'd still think that if he'd met my former boss, awarded a KCB last year. For, as far as I can tell, being truly, spectacularly nasty, "delivering" massive cuts, and destroying the morale of a government organisation. But enough of that!

[Simon_Fielding]

There's a broad brush overview of Fawcett's war service in the book The Lost City of Z by American journalist David Grann - I'd love to read more about him.

[Moonraker]

Very short notice, I'm afraid, but the film of "The Lost City of Z " is being screened on BB2 at 2100 hours tonight. There appear to be some WWI scenes.

 

Moonraker

Edited 9 March , 2019 by Moonraker

[Ron da Valli]

 

On 09/03/2019 at 17:37, Moonraker said:

Very short notice, I'm afraid, but the film of "The Lost City of Z " is being screened on BB2 at 2100 hours tonight. There appear to be some WWI scenes.

 

Moonraker

I think you did everyone a huge favour for giving very short notice Moonraker. The explorer part of the film was quite good. However, the WW1 scenes, well, where do I start?  If you missed it then you were lucky!

[paulgranger]

Yes, pretty questionable scenes. And if Fawcett's service was all with the artillery, as per the OP, what was he doing leading an infantry attack? Not, mind, that I knew he was a gunner when I saw the film the other night, only when I read this topic just now.

[MAW]

Wikipedia states:

 

‘At the beginning of the First World War Fawcett returned to Britain to serve with the Army as a Reserve Officer in the Royal Artillery, volunteering for duty in Flanders, and commanding an artillery brigade despite being nearly 50 years old. He was promoted from major to lieutenant-colonel on 1 March 1918, and received three mentions in despatches from Douglas Haig, in November 1916, November 1917, and November 1918, and was also awarded the Distinguished Service Order in June 1917.

 

His WW1 medals (1914-15 Star / BWM / VM trio - see image) are at the Torquay Museum (Babbacombe Road, Torquay, Devon), although the DSO appears to be missing.

 

Mark

Edited 11 March , 2019 by MAW

[Moonraker]

Just watched my recording, and I thought that it would upset some of us! I picked up on Fawcett - an artillery man - leading an infantry attack, I thought his speech to the men before they went over the top a bit naff, and as for his explorer-colleague wearing a bushy beard when an NCO ...

 

I couldn't work out the reason for the two overhead shots of British steam trains interspersed, IIRC, with jungle footage. Where were the trains going and who - of the film's characters - were on them?

 

Talking of characters, many of these on the raft were never introduced to us - I didn't know if they were British soldiers, or what?

 

More here, on IMDB

 

Perhaps the "Incorrectly regarded as goofs" entry is the most nerdish I've seen.

 

My own modest contribution would be that the Stoke Canon countryside where the Fawcetts lived was nothing like that portrayed in the film.

 

The ending, of course, was pure supposition.

 

Moonraker

 

[Moonraker]

Was Lorne40's book ever published? (See OP.)  Was he

David Grann

 

(Lorne40 hasn't visited us since February 2008.)

 

Moonraker

[leibregiment]

One of the best books on the subject is; 

Exploration Fawcett By Brian Fawcett (Arranged from His Manuscripts, Letters, Log-Books, and Records)

Fawcett, Lt.-Col. P.H

Published by Hutchinson, London, 1953

[kenf48]

Not very complimentary article published around the time the film was first released

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/the-lost-city-of-z-is-a-very-long-way-from-a-true-story-and-i-should-know/

 

 

Ken

[Chris Kelly]

On 11/03/2019 at 21:27, Moonraker said:

Just watched my recording, and I thought that it would upset some of us! I picked up on Fawcett - an artillery man - leading an infantry attack, I thought his speech to the men before they went over the top a bit naff, and as for his explorer-colleague wearing a bushy beard when an NCO ...

 

I couldn't work out the reason for the two overhead shots of British steam trains interspersed, IIRC, with jungle footage. Where were the trains going and who - of the film's characters - were on them?

 

Talking of characters, many of these on the raft were never introduced to us - I didn't know if they were British soldiers, or what?

 

More here, on IMDB

 

Perhaps the "Incorrectly regarded as goofs" entry is the most nerdish I've seen.

 

My own modest contribution would be that the Stoke Canon countryside where the Fawcetts lived was nothing like that portrayed in the film.

 

The ending, of course, was pure supposition.

 

Moonraker

 

 

[Chris Kelly]

My great uncle John Todd was the Gunner Todd (ex Corporal RGA) mentioned in Exploration Fawcett. He went on a number of expeditions with Major Fawcett and 2 other former NCO’s, across the Andes and into the rainforests to survey national boundaries to prevent border wars between Bolivia, Peru and Brazil. They asked for an English ‘neutral’ party to carry out this work during the rubber boom years in the region.

Gunner (John) Todd had been a sparring partner with Fawcett in Ceylon many years before when Fawcett was a subaltern. He took Todd along as bodyguard and morale booster! My great uncle John was a fit and healthy Army boxer, but was invalided out on his final expedition and I believe he went on to serve in WW1 as did the others. He survived.

The “Z” book and film are works of pure fiction and fantasy written by someone with absolutely no concept of military matters, let alone real exploration, and all they have done is provide a great disservice to Fawcett and his companions.

[sadbrewer]

Photo of the man himself courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

[Maricourt]

Good Evening,

 

I do seem to remember reading somewhere that Col Fawcett used an Ouija Board prior to firing his guns!  I am not sure on the veracity of this!

 

Also Peter Fleming, brother of 007's creator, Ian, in 1932 replied to an advert in The Times to join an expedition to search for Fawcett and published "Brazilian Adventure" - somewhat dated and of its time but still a good read and was published in the Penguin Travel Series a few years ago.

 

Ian & Peter Fleming's own father, Major Valentine Fleming, DSO, was killed by shellfire on the 20th May, 1917.

 

All very fascinating!

 

Maricourt

[FROGSMILE]

An interesting thread about Fawcett, especially after having seen the absurd Hollywood movie that hyped up his life as an explorer.  Nevertheless, to have been MiD three times and gazetted for a DSO he must have been a competent enough artilleryman who served his country well, despite being of an advanced age for the frontline.  It’s a pity that no one’s been able to find any citations for his awards, as these would go some way to properly respecting, if not wholly vindicating his memory. Although originally a medal for gallantry in a position of leadership, by the end of WW1 the DSO had been modified to extend to displays of effective and inspiring leadership in positions as a staff officer.  As such the citations could be quite formulaic.  My speculative guess is that Fawcett’s efforts fell into that latter category, and probably (going by the dates) during the slog of Paschendaele.

Edited 3 December , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[sadbrewer]

Gazetted in 1920...unless there are two Percy Fawcett's in the RGA.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 December , 2019 by sadbrewer

[FROGSMILE]

Well at least we have a date now.  I don’t know if there are DSO citations accessible online.

[DavidOwen]

17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Well at least we have a date now.  I don’t know if there are DSO citations accessible online.

 

Try here? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1897699

 

Not sure if it includes citations...

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

 

Try here? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1897699

 

Not sure if it includes citations...

Thank you, I should have made clear that I meant free of charge, but no doubt that’s a pipe dream.

[DavidOwen]

8 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you, I should have made clear that I meant free of charge, but no doubt that’s a pipe dream.

It is a free download.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

It is a free download.

Thank you, mea culpa. When there’s a download I assumed a charge.

 

I’ve just recalled that forum member, Lancashire Fusilier declared that he could look up DSO recipient citations, but I have not seen him post for some time.  I hope that he is well.

Edited 3 December , 2019 by FROGSMILE

[NigelS]

The bad news 'The Lost city of Z' was shown again on BBC4 last night (11th Feb '21). The good news for anyone who wants to watch - despite previous comments - it's available on BBC iPlayer for another 29 days. 

 

Nigels