auchonvillerssomme Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 I picked this up at the weekend. looks like a Vickers tool, has scale, lever and drift but also has attached tube. I've never seen one like this before. Can anyone shed any light please. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 Some sort of spring tester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 It appears to be based on the later pattern of tool issued to Vickers and Lewis gunners with the balance for checking the tension of the fusee, but with the side tube added. I do not know if this is an official modification or not though. Sorry I can't be of more help Mick, Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 I have seen one of these before, but minus the tube sticking out from the main part. They were made by George Salter Ltd. in West Bromwich, not far from where I live. Yours appears to have the Salter maker's mark, Mick - a Staffordshire Knot. The local connection aroused my interest when I saw one so I asked what it was and was told that it was a spring scale (Salter's made spring balances) supplied with Vickers and Lewis guns for weighing the tension on the cocking handle and checking the friction on the parts which made the recoil system work. (I think I may be saying the same thing as Tony, but I don't know what a fusee is!) Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 4 June , 2007 Share Posted 4 June , 2007 Yes, you are saying the same thing as me, but the uncertainty is my fault, as I should have said fusee SPRING. This is the spring on a Vickers gun that tensions the recoiling parts, really a recoil spring in essence but always known as the fusee. As I said in my post, the Salter combination tool does not normally have the side tube. What cannot be seen is whether the end of the side tube is simply round or whether it forms a socket to adjust something. Lewis recoil spring tension?. Mick? Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 4 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2007 I'm ok with the spring bits etc, its the 'T' shape thats thrown me. Yes its a salter. The tube is round. this is the type I'm used to. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 6 June , 2007 Share Posted 6 June , 2007 Hello, A 'fusee' spring is one of the general form of a clock spring i.e a strip of metal wound so that it resists rotation, rather than the common spring (for want of a better name) which is a length of wire twisted to form a cylindrical shape that resists motion along its length. Wish I had not started this, particularly if 'I am teaching my grandmother'. However in the Vickers the main working parts are a pair of hinged roads which fold up as the gun fires and when the cocking handle is rotated and straighten again under the action of the fusee spring to lock the breech before firing. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 6 June , 2007 Share Posted 6 June , 2007 Whilst I've never seen an issue tool for the Vickers/Lewis with the T-shape, I've seen similar tools with this sort of shape which are designed so that an extra length of wood or other similar material can be inserted, so give better leverage to remove awkward screws - perhaps the case here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 7 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 7 June , 2007 They were my thoughts but the its difficult to see how leverage could be applied with damaging it. my other thought was that it was attached to a horizontal bar so it could be used as a hands free weighing scale. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 7 June , 2007 Share Posted 7 June , 2007 Hello, I played about on Google with 'fusee' and 'Vickers MG' and came across a statement that the Vickers rate of fire could be adjusted by changing the spring load. The spring load could, I think, be measured with a spring balance of the type shown attached to the 'cocking handle'. But I don't know the Vickers at all well. However, I have a memory of a related point i.e. of an NCO talking about a 'paper test'. That must be some 50 odd years ago. The point being to establish that the mechanism had locked with the lever forward (i.e. the hinge had gone 'over centre') by checking that the moving parts could not be pushed back with a piece of paper under the lever forward stop. I am sure there is an expert who may well think this is just rambling! Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 11 June , 2007 Share Posted 11 June , 2007 As many of you hvae correctly identified, it is a sping balance (Balance, Spring, MG) for the Vickers / Lewis MGs. It is the second of the two designs as it incorporates the screwdriver head and the point (simpler designs just used plain round ends which had no alternative use). I have not seen this variation before but there are a few possible uses if it is a socket of some sort - the principle one I can think of is to use on the early-type muzzle attachments on the Vickers which were clamped on by a square-headed bolt rather than screwed on (the Mk. II barrel). The use of the spring balance as a lever would have been frowned upon I think as it was a precision instrument that was used to manage the heart of the gun - the fusee spring - which, if incorrect, would upset the workings of the recoil mechanism. This assumption may be incorrect as I am not as familier with Lewis Guns and any socket (or otherwise) may fit a Lewis better than the Vickers. Regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 11 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2007 As many of you hvae correctly identified, it is a sping balance (Balance, Spring, MG) for the Vickers / Lewis MGs. It is the second of the two designs as it incorporates the screwdriver head and the point (simpler designs just used plain round ends which had no alternative use). I have not seen this variation before but there are a few possible uses if it is a socket of some sort - the principle one I can think of is to use on the early-type muzzle attachments on the Vickers which were clamped on by a square-headed bolt rather than screwed on (the Mk. II barrel). The use of the spring balance as a lever would have been frowned upon I think as it was a precision instrument that was used to manage the heart of the gun - the fusee spring - which, if incorrect, would upset the workings of the recoil mechanism. This assumption may be incorrect as I am not as familier with Lewis Guns and any socket (or otherwise) may fit a Lewis better than the Vickers. Regards Richard The T piece is round in section it wouldnt fit a bolt or nut. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 11 June , 2007 Share Posted 11 June , 2007 Then I will be thinking a bit more Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 12 June , 2007 Share Posted 12 June , 2007 A 'fusee' spring is one of the general form of a clock spring i.e a strip of metal wound so that it resists rotation, rather than the common spring (for want of a better name)... Doesn't add much to the enquiry, but the fancy thing about a fusee as an engineering device is that it's intended to deliver a constant force to a mechanism (originally a clock escapement) as distinct from one that varies with the tension, compression or torsion of a plain spring. Take a gander:- http://www.timezone.com/library/archives/a...703209127822958 ...but don't expect it to lead straight to that answer wanted here... Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 12 June , 2007 Share Posted 12 June , 2007 Probably a pointless observation, but could it be that the side arm is simply a handle for use when access is difficult (testing a gun, mounted in situ). Tom t W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Fisher Posted 12 June , 2007 Share Posted 12 June , 2007 The uses for the spring balance can all be applied in situ and are in-line so a handle is not required. (The methods for use are described in various manuals I have at my website). Possibly used for a civilian application but I am truly puzzled. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 13 June , 2007 Share Posted 13 June , 2007 Hello, Well said MikB ! Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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