Irish OTC's

[tintin1689]

I was asked for any info. I had on Irish OTC's by Ulster Scot. On looking it up and writing it down I thought others might be interested so here goes...

Irish OTC's were under Irish Command GOC rather than directly under the War Office as was the case in the rest of the UK

Recognition as a contingent required a minimum of one officer and 30 cadets, in addition for the Senior Contingents the sponsoring institution had to have a Military Education Committee, sub-units could be of any of the major arms, but in practice only infantry and RE companies were formed in the Junior Division until after the Great War and only the larger Colleges in the Senior Division offered more than infantry

Belfast UOTC

The Contingent was formed on the formation of the OTC and comprised 2 Infantry Companies and a Field Ambulance Section. The Contingent is still in operation.

The first C.O was Capt. H H B Cunningham and the Contingent was commanded by Major Gregg Wilson at the outbreak of war in August 1914.

From formation to August 1914 the Contingent contributed 81 Officers and from August 1914 to March 1915 157 Officers and no Other Ranks

Fallen members of the Contingent from August 1914 to March 1915 were:-

A N Bourke – Royal Irish Fusiliers

J H Buchanan – Royal Irish Fusiliers

C R Crymble – Royal Irish Fusiliers

A J Millar – Royal Irish Fusiliers

K T Frost – Cheshire Regiment

P M McDonagh – Queens Own RoyalWest Kent Regiment

V T T Rea – Royal Ulster Rifles

W T McCurry – Royal Army Medical Corps

T F Brown – Manchester Regiment

R M MacCabe – London Regiment

Dublin UOTC

The Contingent was formed on the formation of the OTC and comprised a Royal Engineers Section, 3 Infantry Companies, an Army Service Corps Section and a Field Ambulance Section

The first C.O was Capt. S G d’C Wheeler and the Contingent was commanded by Major C Toogood DSO at the outbreak of war in August 1914

From formation to August 1914 the Contingent contributed 50 Officers and from August 1914 to March 1915 350 Officers and 50 Other Ranks

Fallen members of the Contingent from August 1914 to March 1915 were:-

C S French – Royal Dublin Fusiliers

R E Cusack – Royal Dublin Fusiliers

F W Lynch – Connaught Rangers

W E Hall – Royal Fusiliers

R M B Gamble – Kings Liverpool Regiment

Royal College of Surgeons of Ireland

The Contingent was formed on the formation of the OTC and comprised an Infantry Company. The College was located in Central Dublin. The first commander was Major A C Geddes and the commander at the outbreak of war was Major E J Evett.

Between formation and 1914 it contributed 64 Officers, between August 1914 and March 1915 it contributed 34 Officers and 6 Other Ranks.

As a matter of interest the building was occupied by Nationalist Troops under Countess Markiewicz during the Easter Rising and suffered battle damage.

Royal Veterinary College of Ireland

The Contingent was formed on the formation of the OTC and comprised 4 Veterinary Sections. The College was located in the Ballsbridge area of Dublin, today it forms part of University College Dublin. The first commander was Major A E Metttam who was still in post in 1914.

Between formation and 1914 it supplied 8 Officers and between August 1914 and March 1915 it supplied 21 Officers and 2 Other Ranks.

Campbell College

Formed at the formation of the OTC it was the first contingent in Ireland to be recognised. The school is located near Belfast and was set up in 1894. The contingent still exists and is one of the largest School Cadet Corps in the UK.

In 1914 it comprised an infantry company under Captain C D Chase who had been in command since formation. From formation to 1914 it contributed 7 Officers and from August 1914 to March 1915 a further 29 Officers and 12 Other Ranks

Cork Grammar School

The Contingent was recognised in 1910 and comprised one infantry company under Lieutenant J Haigh. Lieutenant T H T Evans had charge in 1914. From formation to 1914 it supplied 18 Officers and from August 1914 to March 1915 6 Officers and no other ranks.

The School, a Church of Ireland foundation sponsored by the Bishop of Cork and founded in 1882, is today part of the Ashton School.

St Andrews College, Dublin

The Contingent was recognised in 1911 and comprised one infantry company under Lieutenant W Johnston who was still in charge in 1914. From formation to 1914 it supplied 1 Officer and from August 1914 to March 1915 9 Officers and 3 other ranks.

The School, a Presbyeterian institution still exists and was set up in 1894.

St Columbas College, Dublin

The Contingent was recognised in 1912 and comprised one infantry company under Lieutenant R Magill.In 1914 Captain H Aplin was in command. From formation to 1914 it supplied 2 Officers and from August 1914 to March 1915 20 Officers and 5 other ranks.

The School, a Church of Ireland institution still exists and was set up in 1843. In 1914 it was based at Rathburnham near Dublin

Between August 1914 and March 1915 a former member of the contingent, A F Bates, was killed whilst serving with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers

[swizz]

Hi tintin

This is very interesting. I think the 'Belfast' one refers to the OTC based at Queen's University, as I know there was also one at Belfast Inst (RBAI) but it didn't survive long after the war.

From a history of the school:

A school branch of the Officer's Training Corps was formed under the command of H Hamill, a member of the Classical Staff, and close on a hundred boys joined in the first week. But they were to suffer a good deal of frustration ... the original enthusiasm was hard to keep up. the reason was that the War OFfice found itself unable to give the corps official recognition, and, on account of the disturbed state of the country, no rifles or other offensive weapons were allowed to be used. It was not until 1917 that the corps got official recognition...

It was wound up at the end of 1920.

Hope this is of interest!

Swizz

[tintin1689]

Dear Swizz,

That is very interesting

The Belfast Contingent mentioned is Senior Division and was based at Queens. I don't know what the position was in 1914 but today it is open to students at other Institutions of Higher Education in the Belfast area.

The RBAI has a Contingent today in the CCF which is basically the old Junior Division. It would be very interesting to see other schools whose applications for recognition failed. I wonder if any relevant files survive?

[jollyfifer]

Many Thanks for posting that information. What was the source of that info? I assume that the list is all of the irish OTC's at that time? I know Portora Royal School had one but I believe it was formed after the War. I was reading the history of Queen's OTC and I remember it stated that over 1200 officers went through the corps during the course of the war. Is there any sources dealing the OTC post March 1915?

Cheers

[tintin1689]

Country Life magazine published a number of Regimental histories during the Great War and the OTC was one of them, that is where most of my stuff comes from in addition to notes I have made over the years from all kinds of sources, principally insignia books

I am hoping to go to Kew in the not too distant future to look at some of the OTC records and will send you any info I get

I can also send you lists of OTC members commissioned between Aug 1914 and March 1915 if you are interested

[Brian Curragh]

As an old Instonian - has anyone got the Roll of Honour for the school to hand ?

Brian

[wig]

This is a really important contribution. Many thanks

wig

[max7474]

Many Thanks for posting that information. What was the source of that info? I assume that the list is all of the irish OTC's at that time? I know Portora Royal School had one but I believe it was formed after the War. I was reading the history of Queen's OTC and I remember it stated that over 1200 officers went through the corps during the course of the war. Is there any sources dealing the OTC post March 1915?

Cheers

Portora Royal School OTC dates from 1926. They were affiliated to the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers.

[Michael Pegum]

Here is the list of 239 members of the Dublin University (Trinity College) Officers Training Corps who died in WW I. It comes from the University of Dublin War List, published in February, 1922. It does not include W. E. Hall, mentioned in the first post, while R. M. B. Gamble, also mentioned there, is not marked as having been a member of the O.T.C., although he was a Trinity student who entered the Army before finishing his studies.

Other O.T.Cs. - your turn!

Michael

Agnew, Andrew Eric Hamilton - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Allardyce, George Gilmour - Australian Forces

Allardyce, William Swirles - R.N.V.R.

Ashley, Maurice - R.Irish Fusilier s

Atock, Arthur George - Black Watch

Austin, James - Manchesters

Baile, George Frederick Cecil - R.E.

Baillie, George Richard Launcelot - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Ball, William Ormsby Wyndham - R.A.M.C.

Barrett, Hebron - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Barton, Vivian Alfred - R.F.A.

Bateman, Arthur Cyril - R.A.M.C.

Beasley, James Joyce - R.Irish Fusiliers

Beatty, Eric Edge - Connaught Rangers

Black, Thomas Samuel Cuthbert - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Boyers, Edwin - R.A.M.C.

Brabazon, Alan - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Braddell, Edward Terence - R.E.

Bradley, John McDonald - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Bradstreet, Gerald Edmund - R.E.

Breen, Thomas Francis Pennifather - R.A.M.C.

Brereton-Barry, William Roche - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Broderick, Thomas Joseph - R. Irish Regt.

Butt, John Gillis - R.A.M.C.

Callaghan, Arthur Nickson - Liverpool Regt.

Callaghan, Leslie Wilfrid - West Yorks. Regt.

Callear, Herbert - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Campbell,William - R.F.A.

Christie, Cedric Pashe - Liverpool Regt.

Christie, Robert Francis Sanderson - R.F.C.

Clancy, George Davis Louis - R. Irish Rifles

Clarke, Edward Rupert - London Regt.

Clegg, Richard Bagnall - R.E.

Collins, Maurice - R.G.A.

Collis, William Henry - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Conlin, Bernard Francis - R.F.A.

Cooper, William Campion - Indian Army

Cormac-Walshe, Edward Joseph - Leinster Regt.

Cormac-Walshe, Henry, R.H.A.

Cowan, Philip Chalmers - Manchesters and R.F.C.

Cowan, Sidney Edward - R.F.C.

Craig, Isaac Murray - R.E.

Craig, Thomas Patrick - Leinster Regt.

Craig, William Hedley - R.E. and R.F.C.

Crookshank, Arthur Chichester - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Crozier, William Magee - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Cullinan, Robert Hornidge - R. Munster Fusiliers

Currall, Norman Frank - East Lancs Regt.

Cusack, Reginald Ernest - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Daly, Richard St.George Hercules Langrishe - 13^th Hussars

Day, John Edward - R. Irish Regt.

Deane, Thomas Alexander David - R. Marine Light Infantry

Delmege, James O’Grady - 4^th Dragoon Guards

Despard, Ernest Richard - M.G.C.

Dilworth, Robert Kildahl - R. Munster Fusiliers

Dimond, Francis Robert - Liverpool Regt.

Dobbin, George Frederick R. Irish Fusiliers

Dobbyn, William Augustus Nelson - Liverpool Regt.

Dobson, James Robinson - R. Scots

Dorman, Thomas Robert Hobart - R. Munster Fusiliers

Doyle, John Joseph - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Dowse, Henry Harvey - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Dudgeon, Arthur - R.G.A.

Duggan, George Grant - R. Irish Fusiliers

Duggan, John Rowswell - R. Irish Regt.

Dundon, Sydney Jack - Liverpool Regt.

Dunn, John Valentine - R. Munster Fusiliers

Dunne, John Geoffrey David Baird - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Eaton, Guy Wellesley - R. Irish Fusiliers

Elford, Arthur Douglas - Yorkshire Regt.

Elliott, Thomas Cecil Moore - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Elmitt, Austin Joyce - Welsh Regt.

Ennis, Edward Armstrong - Leinster Regt.

Falkiner, Frederic Baldwin - M.G.C. and R. Irish Rifles

Farran, Edmond Chomley Lambert - R. Irish Rifles

Figgis, Neville Johnstone - Leinster Regt.

Findlater, Percival, St.George - Army Service Corps

Finlay, Robert Alexander - R. Dublin Fusiliers, att. R. Irish rifles

Fishbourne, Derrick Haughton Gardiner - R.G.A.

FitzGerald, Robert William - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Fitzgerald, William Wilks - R.F.C.

Fleming, Geoffrey Montague Mason - R.A.M.C.

Fletcher, Donald Lockhart - Leinster Regt.

Fogarty, William Joseph - South Irish Horse

Franklin, Frederick Robert - R. Irish Rifles

Freeman, Herbert Joseph - Army Service Corps

French, Charles Stockley - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Gibson, William Frederick Augustus - R.A. M.C.

Glenn, Cecil William - Army Service Corps

Goodbody, Henry Edgar - Leinster Regt.

Goodbody, Owen Frederick - R.E.

Graves, Algernon Frederick Charles - R. Irish Fusiliers

Green, William Osmond - R. Irish Rifles

Greene, Godfrey Robert - North Staffs. Regiment

Greene, Henry - Indian Army

Greer, James Kenneth MacGregor - North Irish Horse and Irish Guards

Griffin, James John Wahab - Bedfordshire Regt.

Haines, Alec C. - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Hall, John Ramsay FitzGibbon - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Hamilton, Cecil Claude - Connaught Rangers

Hamilton, Geoffrey Cecil Monck - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Hamilton, Hector Macdonald - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Hammick, St.Vincent Charles Farrant - Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst

Hancock, John Henry - R.E.

Hannon, Norman Leslie - Liverpool Regt.

Harper, Edgar Henry - South Staffs. Regt.

Harpur, Edward Percival - Leinster Regt. and R. Irish Fusiliers

Harris, Eric Wallace - R.G.A.

Hartley, Walter John - R. Irish Fusiliers

Hatte, Edward Stokes - R. Irish Rifles

Healy, George Ernest - Army Service Corps

Heffernan, William Patrick - R. Irish Regt., attached Gloucester Regt.

Hemphill, Richard Patrick - Leinster Regt. and R.F.C.

Henry, William Ernest - R. Dublin Fusiliers and R. Irish Fusiliers

Heuston, Frederick Gibson - R. Irish Fusiliers

Hickman, Poole Henry - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Hillas, Arthure Benedict Edward - Gordon Highlanders

Hoey, Frederick Cyril - R.F.C.

Howell, Reuben Harrison - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Howes, Charles William - Leinster Regt. and Durham Light Infantry

Jameson, Harold Gordon - R.E.

Jordan, Percy Thomas - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Joy, Frederick Charles Patrick - R. Irish Rifles

Julian, Ernest Lawrence - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Kennedy, Herbert Colles - R.A.F.

Kerr, Robert Goodman - R. Innis. Fusiliers and R. Irish Fusiliers

Kidd, William Sydney - R. Munster Fusiliers

King, Gordon Ulick - Cheshire Regt.

Kinnear, Charles Annesley - R.F.A.

Kyle, David Logan - R.E.

Leland, John Henry Frederick - R. Welsh Fusiliers

Lemass, Herbert Justin - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Le Peton, Desmond Alexandre - Somerset Light Infantry

Levis, George John Francis - Leinster Regt.

Lewis, Henry William - R.E.

Linden, Samuel McCullagh - R.G.A.

Lindsay-Young, Laurence Hingston - Army Service Corps, Royal Scots Fusiliers and R.F.C.

Lucas, James Edward - Durham Light Infantry

Lynch, Francis William - Connaught Rangers

Lynch, James Stewart - Liverpool Regt.

McCahon, Robert - R.E.

McCormick, Ian Campbell - R. Naval Reserve

McCulloch, Robert Maxwell - R.F.A.

McDonald, Mark William - R. Innis. Fusiliers

McElroy - Frederick William - Tank Corps

McFerran, Thomas Malcolm - R. Dublin Fusiliers and R.F.C.

Manning, Robert Charles - Canadian Contingent and R.E.

Martin, Charles Andrew - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Martin, Laurence Henry - R. Irish Fusiliers

Maxwell, Henry - Cheshire Regt.

Meade, Michael - Liverpool Regt.

Merrick, Thomas Barker - N. Staffs Regt. and M.G.C.

Millar, Edward Chaytor - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Milligan, Frank Joynt - R.F.C.

Mitchell, Francis Sidney - R.A.M.C.

Moore, Arthur Robert - London Regt.

Moore, Dacre William - R. Irish Rifles and M.G.C.

Moore, Henry Geoffrey Hamilton - R. Irish Regt.

Moore, Hugh Victor - Connaught Rangers

Moran, Francis - R. Munster Fusiliers

Morrison, Douglas, St.George - R.F.A.

Murphy, Bernard Joseph - R. Munster Fusiliers

Murphy, Grosvenor Fitzell Leybourne - R.A.M.C.

Murphy, James Neville Herbert - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Murray, Randolph Noel Churchill - R. Innis Fusiliers

Myles, Charles William Chester - R.A.M.C.

Nelis, James Edward Thornhill - R. Innis Fusiliers

North, Harry Lonsdale - R. Irish Regt.

Oakshott, William Albert Neville - R. Munster Fusiliers and R. Irish Rifles

O’Duffy, Kevin Emmet - R. Munster Fusiliers

O’Keeffe, Joseph Richard - N. Lancashire Regt.

O’Kelly, Richard - R.A.M.C.

Oliver-Thompson, John Herbert - S. Staffs Regt. and M.G.C.

Owens, William Brabazon - R.E.

Papprill, Frederick Ernest - Leicester Regt., att. E. Lancs Regt.

Pedlow, William - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Potterton, William Herbert - R.E.

Power, Henry Richard - R. Irish Rifles and R.F.C.

Pratt, Mervyn Palles - Indian Army, att. R. Irish Regt.

Purser, Philip Addison - Middlesex Hussars and A.S.C.

Rainsbury, Finn Barre Prendergast - R. Fusiliers

Ramsay, Alan Livingstone - R. Irish Regt.

Richards, William Reeves - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Roberts, David - Lincolnshire Regiment

Ronayne, James Andrew - R. Munster Fusiliers

Russell, Marcus Ralph - 8^th Hussars

Russell, Thomas Wallace - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Scallan, Richard Talbot - R.H.A. and R.G.A.

Schute, John Hartley - R. Irish Fusiliers

Shaw, James Rowan - Cheshire Regt.

Sheridan, Leonard - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Simms, Alfred George Francis - Army Cyclist Corps and Connaught Rangers

Small, Hugh Alexander - Liverpool Regt.

Smith, Ernest Frederick William - Leinster Regt. and R.F.C.

Smith, James Frederick - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Smith, Robert John - Lancs. Fusiliers and York and Lancs. Regt.

Smith, Thomas Emmanuel - R.H.A. and R.G.A.

Smyth, Donald Seymour - R. Irish Regt.

Smyth, George Bestal Jenkinson - R. Irish Rifles

Smyth, Robinson Stewart - R.A.M.C.

Snell, Philip Sidney - R. Irish Fusiliers

Somerville, Richard Newman - R.E.

Sparrow, Frank Edward - R.E.

Spence, Rev. Alexander - Army Chaplain Dept.

Stanton, George - R.A.M.C.

Stanton, Robert - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Starr, Arthur James - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Stewart, Samuel George - R.F.A.

Synnott, Fitzherbert Paget - R. Welsh Fusiliers

Taylor, John Arthur Harold - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Thompson, John Alexander - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Tobin, Richard Patrick - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Tolerton, Samuel Lee - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Tully, James Kivas - Middlesex Regt.

Turnly, John Francis - M.G.C.

Tweedy, Cecil Mahon John - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Usher, Isaac William - R. Irish Regt.

Valentine, Robert Lepper - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Varian, Walter Osborne - R. Munster Fusiliers

Vigors, Arthur Cecil - R. Dublin Fusiliers and R. Munster Fusiliers

Walsh, Martin Oliver - Yorkshire Light Infantry

Warnock, Hector Adolphus Hugh - R. Irish Fusiliers

Watson, Evan Philip - R. Irish Rifles

West, Arthur Eustace Lockley - R.G.A.

White, Gerald John Davis - R. Irish Regt.

Whitehead, Walter - R. Dublin Fusiliers

Whitsitt, John Reginald - R. Innis Fusiliers

Williams, Charles Beasley - R. Irish Rifles

Williams, Gerald Leopold - R. Innis. Fusiliers

Williamson, Edward Benjamin Bickford - Connaught Rangers

Willis, Samuel William - R. Irish Rifles

Willson, William Alick Parkinson - R. Irish Rifles

Wilson, Arthur Dominic - R. Munster Fusiliers

Wilson, Arthur Hone - R. Fusiliers

Wilson, Charles Robert - R. Munster Fusiliers

Wingfield, Richard James Trench - R.F.A.

Woods, William Thornley Stoker - R.F.A.

Worthington-Eyre, Lionel George - R.F.A.

Younge, Frederick George Patrick - Leinster Regt.

[aboode]

I saw this "old" thread, but want to react to it all the same. I am compiling a list of Pipe Majors of University O.T.C.s .

For the Dublin University O.T.C. I have one name: William Nathaniel ANDREWS (born 1873 Dublin, died 1939 Dublin) who was their P/M around 1913 (and P/M of the 10th Bn Royal Munster Fusiliers 1918-1922).

Have there been more P/Ms in the Dublin U.O.T.C.?

Aad

[jdoyle]

W Andrews is listed as Pipe Major in the 1916 Rebellion Handbook in the list of the Defenders of Trinity College under Staff.

Johnny