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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Willie McBride


Guest KevinEndon

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After spending part of yesterday reading all about Willie McBride on various Northern Irish sites , it looks to me as Eric has said one thing over here and another thing over the water. When i first heard this song in Belfast many years ago it was said to be about a Nationalist ,then over the years the loyalists appear to have claimed him as one of their own.Now it appears that the Willie McBride in the song never existed . If as Eric says there was no Willie McBride i would be very interested to know as to why that name was chosen for his song,was it only because McBride rhymes with side.?

Mary.

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When i first heard this song in Belfast many years ago it was said to be about a Nationalist

By "Nationalist", do you mean Irish Republican Nationalist? I think that's due to the Celtic surname, the reference to 1916 and the fact "The Dubliners/Fureys and Davy Arthur" had it in their repertoire (because of where they come from, I'm not suggesting they're Republican Nationalists), however the last verse makes it clear it's not about the Easter Rising, why would they glorify someone who'd volunteered to serve and die with the British Army? Oh and the man they've "identified" was Presbyterian.

As to the claim he was 9th Skins, there's a couple of telling quotes in the piece anneca links to above: -

"Bogle allegedly told a local historian that the grave (of 'his Willie McBride') belonged to a soldier who was with this battalion – without being specific about the location of the grave."

"Some are convinced that, in fact, this is the 'Willie McBride' in question but Bogle's testimony seems to contradict this.

The composer has been reluctant to clearly pinpoint the source of his inspiration beyond all reasonable doubt".

Could the source be the "Local Historian" quoted in the BBC piece looking for their 15mins of fame with a little reflected glory? The author of the piece seems to be expressing some doubt.

Sam

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It does not matter what he was ,the post was about was the Willie McBride in the song a real person or not.

Mary.

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It does not matter what he was ,the post was about was the Willie McBride in the song a real person or not.

Mary.

Mary

You brought up the subject of the Nationalist and Unionist connections, I merely answered your point. If you hadn't made it there would have been no need to reply. It is a discussion forum after all.

Sam

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I was just pointing out as other posters have said if we dont get the truth ,then you see what happens it grows arms and legs all i was doing was pointing out we deserve to be told the truth.

Mary.

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Sam has made the point that it is not about the Easter Rising and I must agree. Regarding Nationalists and Irish Republicans, they certainly would not have glorified a man who served with the British Army and this man seemed to be Presbyterian. However best to keep quiet about politics or Matron will be after us. To resolve the issue a debate between Bogle and historians would shed more light.

Anne

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..

MBrockway, why do you think it shouldn't be a subject of discussion, or matter as you put, to people on a WW1 forum?

Derek.

Derek - I wasn't suggesting there shouldn't be a discussion.

I was asking whether it mattered if Eric sat down by a specific and identifiable graveside.

Would the song be any the less if it were 100% proven that Eric had made up the name to fit the metre and rhyme of the song?

Pals will be well aware of my love of this remarkable song - I have posted links to several versions of it in the past.

Perhaps we should start a topic to identify 'Banjo' in Eric's 'It's As If They Know' :hypocrite:

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It matters because if he didn't write about a particular individual, in a particular Cemetery, and the BBC say he did, then another WW1 myth/untruth has been created, and I think there are quite enough of them? I think Eric would be best to lay this to rest (as it were)

Mike

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  • 3 months later...

Well, I hope it was quick and I hope it was clean, or Willie McBride was it slow and obscene ? There was a discussion some months ago about who "Willie McBride" may have been, or indeed whether he was a composite character created for the purposes of the song.

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There's a W.mcBride buried in Authuille Cemetery I visited a couple of years ago.

If I remember rightly there isn't an actual Willie McBride to which the song relates. Eric Bogle wrote the song and just picked the name semi-randomly.

On my visit to Authuille I sat and played the song as it seemed appropriate but I'm not even 100% certain his first name was William.

Many people mistakenly think it's a Provo song and it was frowned upon to play it in certain pubs in the Midlands at one time.

One of my favourites as it happens, very stirring

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There seems to be a bit of doubt, as Bogle has told different people different stories. I reckon he just picked the name at random because it worked for him. Geoff's engine gives a few William McBrides and no William MacBrides

Mike

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I was told one time by a drunken ballad singer (of which I was one) that 'the great fallen' should actually be 'the Gefallen' or however it spelled.

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The Military Cemetery at Authuille has a W McBride and a William McBride, both privates in differing battalions of the Royal Iniskilling Fusiliers, both 1916 casualties.

Keith

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Thanks for that Keith, I hadn't realised there were two at Authuille. I shall pay my respects to them both when I'm back over in June

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  • 5 years later...
On 07/05/2007 at 10:14, Derek Robertson said:

Tom,

I hate to correct you but you've misquoted what is one of the best sections of his song:

But here in this graveyard it's still No Man's Land;

The countless white crosses in mute witness stand

To man's blind indifference to his fellow man.

Spot on Derek Thanks for the correction

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On 31/03/2008 at 12:02, inishowen said:

If you have a singer in your group a visit to McBrides grave can be a wonderful experience. I've done it twice, once when a young girl sang to a group of teenagers and a second occassion when an older group, mostly lads over 50 struggled through a couple of verses and had to quit.

Sometimes I think people can get a bit too hung up on the facts of this matter. Who cares which of these boys Bogle was writing about? (though I'm delighted that Des has provided the best proof available, its the story i've been telling myself for a while). Visiting McBride can be symbolic for many people who may not have direct relatives lost in the war but who have known this song most of their lives and can relate to it. If it evokes feelings of loss or anger among a group of visitors or enhances their visit in any way then it is worth doing.

Some people seem to get a perverse pleasure out of 'disproving' stories like the McBride case - I feel sorry for them really because they are missing the whole point. The cold facts of WW1 can be read in books at home, the real learning in graveyards can only be felt in the heart, when your emotions are affected by the scale of the loss and the odd glimpse of heroism and comradeship.

The work of songwriters has opened the door for many people on the human experience of WW1 and led them into further historical study of the period. I find it wonderful to stand in Authuille and know that a more creative mind than mine was inspired on those slopes to write and compose such an evocative piece.

If 'the facts and only the facts' as Mr Gradgrind would say, are what interet people most, then I would advise them to put on their slippers and sit in front of the fire with tomes of histories and regimental diaries. But if you want to get a real 'feel' for what happened on the western front then travel armed not only with your trench maps and guide books, but with mens letters and poems in your pocket, and their songs in your heart. And if you find yourself humming Tipperary as you walk along .... then you might just have 'got it'.

Ive  sang at his graveside and found it very difficult and very moving but it was a privilege to have done it

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On 07/05/2007 at 10:43, Tom Morgan said:

That makes more sense, Derek, taken with the following line. (The version we had first is the awful one by the Fureys and they sing "mute in the sand". Since hearing it first we also have Eric Bogle's and June Tabor's versions and I must admit that because I "knew the words" I didn't listen too carefully to their versions).

Thanks for the correction.

Tom

The best words are the original ones , by a long way 

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