Desmond7 Posted 10 May , 2007 Share Posted 10 May , 2007 By the way ... Frank, what have I done to get yer goat up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 10 May , 2007 Share Posted 10 May , 2007 See this link: http://www.greatwar.nl/frames/default-mcbride.html Got to the third paragraph and had to stop Good info otherwise. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 I first heard June Tabor's version in the mid 1970's when I bought her album Ashes & Diamonds after hearing it on John Peel - though on that album it's called No Man's Land. I was already interested in the Great War, but I think that song cemented that interest. It moved me tremendously and still does. Couple of other tracks that have also moved me: Dancing At Whitsun by Steeleye Span ... about the woman of the Lost Generation who remember their menfolk at the spring dancing at Whitsun not in November Why Old Men Cry by Dick Gaughan ... inspired by a battlefield visit to the Salient. Loads of others of course! Anyone else know these two tracks? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Des, what Wood Green does the song refer too please! do you know? Jon, great link, thanks, regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Wood Green is a townland halfway between Ballymena and Antrim near the village of Kells. Ross's Factory is still there except it's a retail outlet now. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 22 May , 2007 Share Posted 22 May , 2007 Des, thank you for that, thought it didn't sound like it was the Wood Green in North London i used to frequent! Cheers, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redorchestra Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Even if 'Green fields of France' and 'And the band played Waltzing Matilda' aren't 100% historically accurate, I think they are still two of the best songs about the Great War and are more accurate than most. In particular I think 'Matilda' is valuable as while it's common to hear songs about soldiers cut down in their prime and dying in vain and all that, you don't hear as much about the less glamourous casualties of war - the armless, the blind and the insane etc.. Having said that I don't really like the verse in 'Green fields of France' which states that Willie McBride joined up to 'end war', as I sincerely doubt that anyone joined up with that aim in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Doubt if Bogle saw a headstone as he refers to "countless white crosses" in the song; unless he visited one the American cemeteries of course. An American Willie McBride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 Even if 'Green fields of France' and 'And the band played Waltzing Matilda' aren't 100% historically accurate, I think they are still two of the best songs about the Great War and are more accurate than most. In particular I think 'Matilda' is valuable as while it's common to hear songs about soldiers cut down in their prime and dying in vain and all that, you don't hear as much about the less glamourous casualties of war - the armless, the blind and the insane etc.. Having said that I don't really like the verse in 'Green fields of France' which states that Willie McBride joined up to 'end war', as I sincerely doubt that anyone joined up with that aim in mind. I think the point Eric Bogle was trying to make was Willie had been deceived into thinking that this was the war to end all wars, someone had coined this phrase and can anyone blame the young or the old for believing it. Doubt if Bogle saw a headstone as he refers to "countless white crosses" in the song; unless he visited one the American cemeteries of course. An American Willie McBride? He was obviously referring to the Christian Crosses engraved on the headstones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 14 February , 2008 Share Posted 14 February , 2008 "The countless white crosses in mute witness stand......." , Doesn't sound like he was referring to the inscriptions on gravestones more the crosses standing alone. Sounds like the final scene in O What a Lovely War the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 "The countless white crosses in mute witness stand......." , Doesn't sound like he was referring to the inscriptions on gravestones more the crosses standing alone. Sounds like the final scene in O What a Lovely War the film. We obviously beg to differ. See this link; http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/noman.html Eric's own words..............."It's a song that was written about the military cemeteries in Flanders and Northern France. In 1976, my wife and I went to three or four of these military cemeteries and saw all the young soldiers buried there. And... couple of months later, I wrote a song called "No Man's Land," which is asking questions of a dead soldier" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 Each of us entitled to our own opinion indeed and only too pleased to agree to differ. Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Bogle does change the words occasionally when he performs the song and the Fureys version with apparently their own take on the words doesn't help matters, especially in the chorus. I just feel that it wouldn't have taken much more effort to get things right in detail and historically with No Man's Land and The Band Played Waltzing Matilda. Artistic licence perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redorchestra Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 I think the point Eric Bogle was trying to make was Willie had been deceived into thinking that this was the war to end all wars, someone had coined this phrase and can anyone blame the young or the old for believing it. Yes I understand where the reference came from, what I meant was that as far as I know I've never heard of any soldier who volunteered because they believed that. Although HG Wells coined the phrase at the start of the war, I don't think it gained popular currency at least until the war was in its final stages. People volunteered for all sorts of reasons, to 'avenge' Belgium, to stop German militarism, because of peer pressure, because of economic factors. I sincerely doubt anyone thought that by enlisting to fight they would be ending war forever. If people really did think it would be 'all over by Christmas' they were probably imagining the war to be more of an exciting skirmish than the cataclysmic war that it eventually became. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 15 February , 2008 Share Posted 15 February , 2008 Each of us entitled to our own opinion indeed and only too pleased to agree to differ. Thank you for the courtesy of your reply. Bogle does change the words occasionally when he performs the song and the Fureys version with apparently their own take on the words doesn't help matters, especially in the chorus. I just feel that it wouldn't have taken much more effort to get things right in detail and historically with No Man's Land and The Band Played Waltzing Matilda. Artistic licence perhaps. I went to see Eric performing at the Saddleworth Folk Festival a couple of years ago and he sang the exact words which are on his CD. Ironically I could have asked him the question as he was stood outside having a smoke and we chatted about where he lived (Adelaide) and I was telling him about my trips Down Under. Sadly he did not perform "Waltzing Matilda" probably because of it's length, but take the point about historically correct especially the Suvla Bay bit, perhaps it should be Suva. Not sure how the bit about a Tin Hat would be substituted. Anyhow, the CD always accompanies me to the Battlefields and I have my own personal Karaoke session in the car. Must look strange to other drivers with tears running down my face................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Does anyone have a photograph of any of the Willie McBride headstones? I'm doing a talk at some schools in April, and it would be very useful if someone has one I could use. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Allie, No, but I am visiting in March and can get one if nobody offers before? Regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCurragh Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Allie - I'll also be at Authuille over Easter so am also happy to help Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Scottie, Alan... either would be fabulous! (Actually, both would be wonderful so I can point out that it probably isn't a real Willie McBride, but that's being a bit greedy.) I'm actually going to sing the song, believe it or not. Now to work out which version. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st east yorks Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Allie, I did a thread on Willie Mcbride,this included a photo i took of the grave in Authille cemetery last year. Im off to work now so dont have the time,try the search for my original post i think it was under the 'other' catagory.If you cant find it i will put the picture up for you again. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st east yorks Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Allie, I Tried the search facility and it did not come up with my original post.I've found it on page 3 in the 'other' catagory.If you want i can PM you the photo later,let me know.Im off to work now. Anthony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 There are two Willie McBrides from the Royal Innis Fus. One in grave D 67 the other in A 36. Which one is the song about. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Kev - from post number three or four on this subject. Quote from a 'Wheen O Medals' by Bill Canning:- 'The Daily Mail revived interest in the matter of McBride's identity in 2005. Several replies, including one from Marie Blackie in Reigate, Surrey, made different suggestions. The writer decided to contact Eric Bogle. Generously, Eric replied confirming that it was the grave of Willie McBride of the Tyrones (9th Innis Fus) he sat down beside on that warm day. He states that he used the name from among FOURTEEN SIMILAR NAMES to represent the boys buried in France ...' Coincidentally there were two Bogles in the Tyrones, both survived the war. The Willie McBride on the stone was born in Roan Cottage, Lislea, Co. Fermanagh. He worked in the shoe trade in Irvinestown. I have a picture of him at home. I think the answer is that McBride suited the 'graveside' but Bogle probably did have an inspirational moment when he saw his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 29 February , 2008 Share Posted 29 February , 2008 Does anyone have a photograph of any of the Willie McBride headstones? I'm doing a talk at some schools in April, and it would be very useful if someone has one I could use. Allie Allie, please PM me for higher res copies. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 26 March , 2008 Share Posted 26 March , 2008 Des, i tried to pm you with this but you were full! I visited the two 'McBrides' at Authiuile last week and was going through some old posts and saw your entry on the men, you mentioned that you had a photo of one of them, would you consider sending me a copy please so I can show people I am taking over in June when i tell them the story of the song! i understand fully if you would be reluctant to share your research! Can you also confirm the serial number of the man that is the one that was featured in the song as i am still none the wiser! hope you are well, Regards Scottie. Cum on u sperz!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmen1916 Posted 26 March , 2008 Share Posted 26 March , 2008 Hi Scottie, Its none of them, Eric Bogle has stated in the past that the name was picked at random to represent the fallen,as he was so moved after a visit to the war cemeteries. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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