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Remembered Today:

Cherisy, May 3rd, 1917


stiletto_33853

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Adrian,

This map of the plan for the attack at Cherisy is from the 54th Brigade War Diary (note that the 11th Royal Fusiliers and 6th Northamptons went in later and are thus not mentioned)

Cherisy18thDivision.jpg

The 1st Objective and Final Objective lines ended up being irrelevant as the attack didn't get much beyond Fontaine Trench.

Steve.

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Adrian,

As pointed out by Jeremy the Brigade history is on-line. If you would like the War Diary, including the battalion orders in it send me a personal message with your e-mail address and I will send it off to you.

Andy

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Hi Steve

Thats just what I was looking for, great.

I have read that "B" Company of the Royal Fusiliers were attached to the 12th Middlesex Battalion for this attack and My G Grandfather was in "B" Company.

Do you know which Battalions of the 55th Brigade were to the north?

Thanks to all once again.

Adrian

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7th Buffs on the left of 12th Middlesex and 8th East Surreys on their left (i.e. Buffs on right/south side of 55th Brigade, and 8th East Surreys on left/north side of 55th Brigade). The 7th Royal West Kents provided a company each to the two battalions in front of them in the same role as the 11th Fusiliers, with the remaining two companies of the RWK as support.

Steve.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Folks

I am just making my own record of the events of 3rd May 1917 on the unfortunate attack on Cherisy by the 54th Brigade.

I am struggling with the battalion line up.

I have the 54th Brigade as 12th Middlesex to the left and the 7th Bedfordshires on the right.

Who was to the left of the Middlesex? I know it was the 55th Brigade, but which battalion? 8th East Surrey? 7th Royal West Surrey? or 7th The buffs?

Secondly, who was to the right of the Bedfords? I know it was the 110th Brigade and I think it was the 9th Leicestershires? Then who?

Any help appreciated.

Regards

Adrian

PS On hols, wife doesn't know i'm wasting my time on this. So can't check the web till tomorrow night.

Thanks.

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Hi, Ive been doing some research into this particular battle as my Great Grandfather died during the battle. thanks and good luck, can I ask what in particular area interests you in this battle?

Colin

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Hi Colin

My Great Grandfather served with the 11th Royal Fusiliers. He was in "B" Company who were attached to the 12th Middlesex Regiment for this battle.

He was awarded the Military Medal that day and his gallantry is recorded in "54th Infantry Brigade" book fortunately.

I am preparing some information from the perspective of the 11th Royal Fusiliers but I want to look at other battalion war diaries to get the complete picture.

If I can prepare a reasonable narrative I hope to post it next year on 3rd May.

I just had a look at the link you gave me. Yes I have seen that thread, it was very interesting. But those Battalions were further north. I want to know who was inbetween the 8th Rifle Brigade and the 12th Middlesex.

Regards

Adrian

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Just seen an earlier thread.

Next to Middlesex were the 7th Buffs, then 8th East Surrey to their left.

Anyone have any information on the 110th Brigade, 9th Leicester's?

Adrian

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Matthew Richardson's "The Tigers" (about the 6th, 7th, 8th & 9th Leicesters) shows 8th Leicesters on the left (attacking east from south of Heninel) and 9th Leicesters on the right, attacking towards Fontaine les Croisilles. 6th Battalion played the supporting role, again in a similar manner to the 11th Royal Fusiliers. The 110th Brigade attack was no more successful than any of the other battalions attacks, and similar to the 6th Northamptons the 7th Leicesters were sent in in the evening.

Steve.

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Thanks Steve, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

Adrian

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Andy,

My very first post on this website so thankyou so much for all the information you've brought together. My particular interest is Frank Pearman of the 5th Battalion Ox and Bucks LI. He was reported killed 3/5/17 and constantly missed by my late grandmother. Her daddy went away and did not come home.

Thank you for you hard work - we must never forget

Tim

post-49493-1252696404.jpg

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  • 1 year later...

Thanks Steve, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

Adrian

Hi,

Having not been on here for a while, I have only just noticed this post.I had a distant relative killed with 55 Coy MGC that day.They were attached to the 7 RWK and 8th East surreys. I have spent much time wandering the battlefield for both 55 and 54 brigade. To that end I have the war diarys for all battalions committed that day.They make interesting reading when you are out on the ground with a map. It seems that 12 Middx may have come under fire from 55 coy MGC at St Michaels statue at the Vis en Artois end of the village. 12 Middx had "drifted" and effectively ended up at one end of the village in a "last post" situation.

I can dig out the diarys and have another look for you. I have them all photocopied along with photos as things are today.

Regards

Lee

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  • 3 years later...

Does anyone know what is happening around St. Michaels statue???

Paid a visit there to remember the action of 3rd May to find piles of rubble around the area and the fine statue on top of the plinth missing.

Andy

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I'll find out for you Andy. Not there at them moment but I have contacts who will find out for me.

At the house semi-permanently from late July so get in touch if you are coming over again and need a place to stay.

Jim

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I'm back out there in a week too so may be able to find out something. I should imagine Jim's contacts may beat me to it though.

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Thanks Jim and Jeremy, place looked a bit of a mess around the Divisional border and a little way along the Blue Line for 3/5/17, something is obviously going on but was saddened to see the fine statue missing from its plinth.

Jim, had a quick stop tour around Arras looking primarily at Monchy but wanted to pay my respects for the 3rd May, then off to other areas. Would love to come over when you are around for that punitive look into Triangle wood and to pick your brains with your fine knowledge of the area, along the Cojeul Switch and The Harp with some information that has come to light re. the 14th Div.

Andy

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  • 7 months later...

Just wondering if Jim or Jeremy had managed to find out what is going on around the area??

Andy

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Sorry Andy, I drive past on a few occasions but never did have he chance to stop and ask anyone. Currently in the process of updating my passport so it will be a month or two before I am back over. Now that Jim is so local I'd say he is your best bet.

JB

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  • 2 months later...

I've just had cause to look into the circumstances of the death of a man serving with the 8th East Surreys and so have transcribed the War Diary for the day. Gives an interesting perspective of what was happening from the view of a unit adjacent to 14th Division, (and perhaps a glimpse of the fog of war).

Appendix 1 to the Battalion War Diary

Report on Operations at Cherisy. 3rd May 1917.

The battalion under my command took over the left of the trenches held by 7/Queens on the night of 1st/2nd May the relief taking place with 5 casualties. On the night of 2nd/3rd May, Companies moved into position for an assault.

My dispositions were

“A” Co. Right assaulting

“B” Co. Left assaulting.

Each company being formed in depth on a three platoon frontage forming two waves, with a 4th platoon in support forming a 3rd wave.

No.16 platoon of 7/R.W.K was attached to “A” Company as “Moppers up” and assembled with the third wave. “C” Company was in support and “D” Company in reserve. Two Stokes guns were attached to “D” Company.

At minus 1.30 all Companies had reported they were in position and ready to attack and that a tape line had been laid 30 yards in front of our front line on which to form up.

My reserve Company were lined up in rear of the British Support Line and we were in touch with 7/Buffs on the right and 8/R.B. on the left.

At zero our shrapnel barrage started and the Battalion advanced to the attack.

The barrage appeared to take an appreciable time to develop. One or two Batteries started slightly ahead of the others. There was no Moon, so it was very dark and within a few minutes of the start there was considerable confusion.

The rear waves had caught up and mingled with the leading waves, and a number of men of the Battalions on my right and left were mixed with my men. Company, Platoon and Section Commanders had great difficulty in keeping their commands together.

There was some enemy machine gun and rifle fire from the front and both flanks, which did not at first cause many casualties, and the advance went forward without great opposition to the first objective.

As regards the enemy on our front occupying the ground between the British front line and Cherisy Village, a few were made prisoners, some were killed but the bulk managed to run away assisted by the darkness. Some of them mingled with our assaulting troops and were not in every case recognised as being enemy, and afterwards hid in shell holes on the ground our troops had passed over.

The enemy counter barrage started at about X.4 and at first was on, and in the rear of, our front line, especially on our Support Line.

In rear of the battalion I had sent forward 2/Lt Pease with the Battalion Signallers to establish a Forward Report centre at dugouts reported to be near the Factory in O.26.c(?). He did this, and communications between here and my Report Centre at O.25.B.93 was maintained from 5.15 am to 11 am.

I established my Headquarters at St Michael’s Statue where I arrived at 5.35 am and found the situation to be that a mixed force of 8/E.Surrey and 7/Buffs was correctly disposed along the line of the first objective of the 55th Bde., but Units and Companies were much intermingled.

At X.8 hours the shrapnel barrage rolled forward and two waves of men started forward towards the final objective. It was then seen that the right flank of the Brigade was entirely in the air, and that although there were scattered parties of British troops on the left the attack on that flank was not in strength at that stage.

The enemy again retreated before our advance and considerable execution was done by our Lewis Guns it now being light enough for them to recognise targets.

At about 6.15 am Cat. Latter 7/R.W.K reported to me in person with about 70 of his men and two Lewis Guns, and stated that he had cleared the 55th Bde frontage in Cherisy. I ordered him to consolidate a position under the Bank at St Michaels Statue and to be in reserve to me and in a position to resist any counter attack from Vis en Artois, and to strengthen our connection with 41st Brigade.

At 6.45 am I could see our men at intervals along the whole Brigade frontage on the final objective.

At about 7.15 am Lieut. Rollinge 55th M.G.Company reported to me with two Vickers guns.

I ordered him to put one gun in position on the South end of the Bank at O.27.c.47 covering the valley leading to Vis en Artois, and the other in the most northerly house in Cherisy.

Later I sent orders to 2/Lieut.Gaywood, T.M.B and 2/Lt Dove of my own Battalion to get into Cherisy and occupy the north end of the Village. They had a mixed party of 50 men and of this party about 15 men with a trench mortar but no ammunition, actually got into Cherisy village, the rest being knocked out by machine gun fire.

Two enemy aeroplanes were flying comparatively low down and dropping lights to show our position and the enemy must also have had excellent artillery observation.

No troops having come up on the Brigade right, I ordered Captain Latter with his Company to extend my line to the right on the final objective with the hope of getting into touch with any troops either of the 54th Brigade or 21st Division which might be on the final objective further to the South than I could observe.

This movement was carried out most gallantly by Capt. Latter and his Company under flanking machine gun fire from which they suffered heavy casualties. When this was done we were occupying somewhat thinly practically the whole of the Divisional frontage on the final objective but still failed to get in touch on our right.

At 7.45 am I saw about 40 of the enemy massing in a sunken road at south of Cherisy at O.32.c.74 and taking the range from the Map, was able to get effective machine gun fire on to them at 1400 yards which caused those who were in view to scatter but they were too far away to prevent them getting into the South end of Cherisy afterwards.

The enemy then started a systematic bombardment and re-occupation of Cherisy from the South end, the method being as follows:-

Two Very lights were put up by the leading enemy infantry. The Artillery then lifted off a sector of about 100 yards of the South end of the Village continuing to bombard the rest of the Village and after an interval of about 20 minutes two more Very lights were put up about 100 yards further up the village, when the process was again repeated, until eventually Very lights were put up in the north end, showing the enemy to have re-occupied the whole of the village.

At the same time the enemy started shelling our troops wherever he could observe them, and I decided that as supports had not put in an appearance it would be necessary for me to move my reserve of 20 men to the Vis en Artois Road to give support to the leading troops. This was found impossible owing to direct machine gun fire down the road from the North End of Cherisy Village. I then attempted to take up a line in shell holes along the 65 Contour line in O.26.b and .d

I had just given orders for this to be done, when the enemy counter attacked on our left and centre.

Our leading troops, seeing the enemy were behind them on both flanks retired slowly with the enemy advancing close up to them. The few remaining Officers attempted to rally the men at the line of the Sensee River and again on the line I had selected but with only limited success.

Owing to the noise for shelling and rifle and machine gun fire it was impossible to make the men hear any orders & with a few exceptions they continued to walk back. Our difficulties were increased by the fact that the enemy were close on the heels of retreat.

Arriving at Cable Trench I found it full of our men and I got in touch with two subalterns of 7/R.W.K.

At this time the morale of the men was not shaken and Cable Trench was being strongly held.

To my personal knowledge there were five Officers in Cable Trench who had the situation well in hand, and were carrying out the work of re-organization. There were several Lewis Guns in position and every man had his rifle on the parapet in a position to shoot.

As the remainder of our men were still walking to the rear I left these Officers in charge of Cable Trench, and went back to our front line with a view to re-organization.

Here I found several Officers were rallying the men in both front and support trenches and the situation was soon well in hand, but meantime the men in Cable Trench began to come back, the retirement commencing from the left, through a message which had been passed down man to man that an officer had ordered them to retire.

As soon as possible Units were sorted out and the Brigade was re-organized in our front and support trenches as follows. From left to right:-

West Kents, Buffs, E.Surreys and Queens.

Estimated casualties are 13 Officers and 381 Other Ranks.

A.R.B. Irvin, Lieut. Col.

Cmdng 8/8, Bn. E.Surrey Regt.

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Hi Andy (tried to PM you but your inbox is obviously full).

I missed the posts you made, not on the Forum as much any more. I haven't found out what is happening to the statue - I'll give it another go next week.

As to coming over, you are most welcome at any time. Give me a few weeks notice as I am doing some tours so do not want to arrange one when you are over. You intrigue me over 'new information' on 14 Div.! Plenty of room here to stay. You will also not be amused at the increasing size of the industrial estate at Beaurains. It is not getting onto Telegraph Hill yet but is getting mighty close as it expands.

Hopefully see you sometime this year. PM me when you have cleared your in tray and I'll send you my email address.

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  • 1 year later...

Hello Andy.

I`ve just returned from my little pilgrimage to locate "New Trench" in front of Triangle Wood. 

With your help, along with that of others, I managed to find the start-line for the 5th Ox/Bucks as they attempted their objective on 3/5/17. 

I took a few pictures and a short piece of film, and post them here in case they may be of interest to you. 

Having now stood on the spot, and seeing what they were up against, I am finally able to sum up their depressing chances for myself, and to realise the hopelessness of the attack. 

Looking left towards Hillside Works, and it`s ideal enfilade position really made me shudder, and to think that the 9th R.B. were on the left of the attack, and consequently between the 5th Ox/Bucks and Hillside Works, must have led to them copping for that enfilade fire full on. 

 

New%20Trench%203rd%20May_zps0h7jbah2.png

 

At the start-line, a short piece of film first looking left towards Hillside Works, and then straight on towards Triangle Wood.

th_20160731_122436_zpsyftrpd0s.mp4

 

New Trench

20160731_115217_zpsvq7aumt6.jpg

 

Form the start-line, Triangle Wood ahead, and my car at the point where New Trench crosses the line of advance

20160731_114337_zpstmhcdmxf.jpg

 

Found on the surface in New Trench

IMG_0059_zpskmqt3avz.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

Hello, sorry to be so late for reading this topic and for answering the question about the missing St Michael Statue on Cherisy battlefield. The statue was stolen by scrap-iron merchant in 2012. It was the same night that the new mayor (Mr Patrick VISENTIN) was elected. Police got the thief last year and he was sentenced to 2 years in prison. Sadly, we didn't find our old statue. It was sold in Belgium (Tournai or Doornik in flemish) to an art trafficker. This man since this date is untraceable and so do the statue...

Today piles of rubble around the area  are removed and next year, the St Michel corner will begin to re-built and receive a new Statue (same of the old) on the top of the plinth. In August 2018, a war memorial will be erected behind the new statue, in remembrance of French-canadian Bn (22nd Bn. Canadian Inf) who hardly fought here too, on August 27th and 28th 1918.

 

Here is a computer simulation, helping you to imagine the aera will look like.
 

Sorry for my poor english but I've learned it in school, 30 years ago ! I hope you will understand me ! :(

cherisy.jpg

Edited by Guest
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Thank you Fabrice for clearing that up. Such a shame and too commonplace these days it seems. Can you tell me if the statue is to be placed on it's original location. also so glad to see all the rubbish has been cleared, it was looking like a builders waste yard.

 

Andy

Edited by stiletto_33853
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As you can see Andy, the mound will be flattened. Mr Visentin, want to move the plinth 4 or 5 yards forward. But we don't know yet, if it's possible because the plinth wears marker indicating height above sea level, so we are waiting previous consent coming from "national geographic institut". Two years ago, I found a german Stahlhelm relic about 10 yards behind the plinth. No much earlier, a local farmer found here humain remains of an unknown german soldier. What are we going to find when this work will begin? I'm afraid to make such discoveries...

Edited by Guest
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