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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Croix De Guerre


Bazezah

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When the unit got the citation the men could not wear the medal. In French units the unit usually printed up a document with the citation printed on it with a section saying something along the lines of " .......... ......... was present at the action mentioned above" and "This certificate does not give the right to wear the croix de Guerre"

I would assume that a British units would not have given out such documents as it is a French tradition and was done at unit level.

Best

Chris

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Thank you Chris,

I appreciate they would not be able to wear the award but would they have a duplicate medal or the like?

Barry

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Hi,

nope, just a certificate. Depending on the number of citations the unit could get a lanyard to wear on their left shoulder.

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Below is the CdeG that the 7th Btn South Wales Borderers received following the VC action involving Dan Burges (see my sig).

Les.

Plaque/Medal

cdgde1.jpg

Close up of plaque

plaqueib3.jpg

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Indeed, in a ceromany like this...

An orriginal photo from 1915 of the CdG being presented to a French unit...

post-748-1176917105.jpg

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When a battery of the Royal Naval Siege Guns on the Belgian Coast was awarded the French CdG, each member of the gun crew received personally-addressed copies of the citation, in French and in English.

Mick

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When a battery of the Royal Naval Siege Guns on the Belgian Coast was awarded the French CdG, each member of the gun crew received personally-addressed copies of the citation, in French and in English.

Mick

That is nice indeed. Do you by any chane have a picture of the document?

Thanks

Chris

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Hi, an interesting discussion especially the Croix de Guerre awarded at the battle of Dorian. My Grandfather

was awarded the Groix de guerre at the battle of Horse shoe Hill on August 18th 1916 on the same front.

I am currently looking for any relevant information on this; I have written to the national archives, museum at winchester & headington for the oxford and bucks & so far the response has been very disappointing.

Here is the address of the website with an extract of the battallion history & also his own account:

http://www.memsahib.plus.com/jts_hoey/

Does anyone know where copies of the citation would be kept? I am aware that there are some letters in the national archive but am not sure what the procedure will be for obtaining scans etc. Can aryone enlighten me in any way?

I have a poster but whose image I haven't yet worked out how to attach which was left to me by Mr Martin who was with my grandfather during the war & want to research him as well with the aim of writing the story.

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That is nice indeed. Do you by any chane have a picture of the document?

Unfortunately not, Chris. I only have a typed copy that corresponds in layout to an original typescript citation I have seen for an individual CdG to a man in the same unit. An officer and two ratings were killed in the action for which the unit CdG was awarded, and they all received individual CdGs. I have a photo of the officer's citation, which is illuminated and signed by General Nivelle.

Mick

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I am told that copies of citations can be obtained from the Bernadotte Casement, pau, SW France; email address

www.bcam-pau@.sga.defense.gouv.fr

This info has been posted on the Forum for another member but we have not received any feedback so do not know if 'it works' . Members also had a great time composing the enquiry to send to Pau but I did not save the item; good luck if you pursue and let us know the outcome; next time I'm in Pau i will pay them a visit

Chris

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Hi Barry

The Award of the Croix de Guerre after the Battle of Tardenois July 1918

The 6th Bn. Black Watch TF were awarded as a unit The Croix de Guerre from the French Government, the following is the text of the Citation in French Army orders:

“This distinguished Battalion, under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel Francis Rowland Tarleton, DSO., has given splendid proof of spirit and dash in the hard fought battles between the 20th and 30th July, 1918. After seven days of bloody fighting, in spite of the exhaustion and heavy losses caused by intense enemy machine gun fire, it stormed a wood, strongly fortified and stubbornly defended by the enemy.

(signed) GUILLAUMAT

General Officer Commanding

The Fifth (French) Army

The award in the case of the 6th was pinned to The Regimental Colour (not The Kings/ Queens Colour) on the pike about 6 inches down from the head. My recolection in 1969 was all ranks wore the medal ribbon on their sleeve and Officers ond SNCO's wore the lanyard. The medal of course was a single award to the battalion and not to each serving individual at the time.

Tom

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Tom, many thanks

The problem I have is, that although my sisier-in-law is very 'with it' she is 78 and she saw the medal when she was young, although not too young to realize it was the Croix De Gierre.

I'll be seeing her this weekend so it my be 'matches under the finger nails for more information'

Barry

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Barry,

If your sister-in-law is sure that she saw the actual medal (as below), then your relative must have received an individual award rather than a share in a unit citation. Some awards of the CdG were announced in the London Gazette, so it would be worth searching the name of your relative. If you post his details, I'm sure one of the Forum's LG experts will take a look for you.

Stebie — where are you?

Mick

post-11021-1177076091.jpg

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That is nice indeed. Do you by any chane have a picture of the document?

Thanks

Chris

Here are images of an individuals CdG citation:

post-14888-1177328526.jpg

post-14888-1177328535.jpg

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Hi Solly

The individual is Harold Victor Williams, (my wifes and her sisters cousin)

The only H V Williams I can find in the Medal Rolls is Cpl H V Williams. Driver W/2234 RFA

Hope that helps, I also hope I've got the details right.

Barry

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I have a copy of quite a large article (27 pages long) titled "The award of the Croix De Guerre (1914-18) to units in the British Army from the MHS Bulletin, published in the 1970's (maybe the one HarryBettts is referring to?)

The article lists the Units of the British Army which received the award, and also has a section on "Dress embellishments"

Dress embellishments

"As the awards under consideration were made collectively to the untis as a whole, they did not entitle individual members of the units to wear the medal, which is the right only of recipients of personal awards

Being conscious of the honour of the award the British units were desirous of some form of dress embellishments to commemorate it, but other than the Fourragere specifically authorised by the French government, no emblem was designed for wear on the uniform, either permanently or temporarily, by individuals of the unit decorated. As already stated the Fourrage of the Croix De Guerre may be authorised by the French Government when a unit has been cited twice for the Croix De Guerre, but its award is not automatic and requires a specific decree of the French government

In consequence British Units adopted their own embellishments without seeking uniformity, the nearest to the Fourrages being the lanyards worn by the 9th Royal Tank Regiment (1940-45), the 6/7th Battalion The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) and the 128 (Wessex) Field Ambulance R.A.M.C. Other embellishments included a piece of the medal ribbon worn on the upper arm and a Cockade of the ribbon in the cap.

With the introduction of battledress and attempt was made officially to standardise the embellishment, and a shoulder flash of Croix de Guerre ribbon was authorised for wear by the units concerned. The flash consists of a pice of the 1914-18 medal ribbon of full width, worn horizontally near the top of each sleeve, but below the shoulder title when the latter is worn......" That part goes on in more detail

If anyone would like a copy of the whole article, (all 27 pages) please PM me your e-mail address and I'll scan and send, The article refers to units, not personal awards

Caryl

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I've scanned and sent copies of the above article (titled "The award of the Croix De Guerre (1914-18) to units in the British Army ) to those who asked me - all in all it's 30 pages in a zipped file

If anyone else would like a copy please PM me your e-mail address, because I might not always have it on my PC

Caryl

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