H.M. Submarine K.17.

[James Brown]

Can anyone please help with any information about what happened to this Submarine on or before this date. I am researching a Gibson, Isaac, Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class, 270632, age 39 from Saltcoats who died at sea on this date.

Thanks

James

[Gilgamesh of Uruk]

Can anyone please help with any information about what happened to this Submarine on or before this date. I am researching a Gibson, Isaac, Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class, 270632, age 39 from Saltcoats who died at sea on this date.

Thanks

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rammed and sunk in the so-called "Battle of May Island". Take a look at http://www.lostsubs.com/May_Island.htm - or put "Battle of May Island" into any popular search engine.

[historydavid]

K 17 was rammed by HMS Fearless during tactical exercises in the North Sea (near May Island, I think) and sank on this date.

K 17, comm 1917, 2650 tons, 1x4" gun and 1x3£ AA, 8x18" torpedo tubes, steam driven.

Best wishes

David

[Chris_B]

If you haven't already seen it, this page describes the erection of a cairn to commemorate the events in 2002.

http://news.mod.uk/news/press/news_headlin...ewsItem_id=1392

The SPICE brothers from Merton were lost on HMS Fearless (K4) in this tragic series of accidents.

Chris

[J T Gray]

While it's not K17, there is a picture pf a May Island participant on the Royal Submarine Museum Photo page at:

http://www.rnsubmus.co.uk/photodp/photo.htm

It's the second one down on the right. If you consider that those funnels are folding down into the hull, you get an idea of why they were slow to dive!

By the way I spent a day in Anstruther this summer & don't recall seeing the plaque. Is it still there, I wonder?

Adrian

[James Brown]

Rammed and sunk in the so-called "Battle of May Island". Take a look at http://www.lostsubs.com/May_Island.htm - or put "Battle of May Island" into any popular search engine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that.

Terrible disaster. 2 Subs and over a hundred submariners lost. After reading the explanation of events it's almost unbelievable that the crew of K17 were steamed over by the other advancing ships after managing to abandon ship. I know it says that there was poor visibility, but the earlier course of events stated that some of the flotilla managed to avoid colision. All this on training manouvers.

Rough seas and poor visibilty.....an extremely dangerous mix.

It's also a little ironic that Isaac Gibson had enlisted in Submarines to fight in WW1 only to perish a few miles up the coast from his own town. Sad

James

[James Brown]

While it's not K17, there is a picture pf a May Island participant on the Royal Submarine Museum Photo page at:

http://www.rnsubmus.co.uk/photodp/photo.htm

It's the second one down on the right. If you consider that those funnels are folding down into the hull, you get an idea of why they were slow to dive!

By the way I spent a day in Anstruther this summer & don't recall seeing the plaque. Is it still there, I wonder?

Adrian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adrian

Liked the link, and I've Faved it for future reference.

Thanks

James

[James Brown]

David

Thanks for the stats. appreciate your time.

Chris B

The link gives a more in depth account of events surrounding this incident. Such a tragedy for these early submariners.

Thanks all for your time.

I now have a reasonble story attach to Isaac Gibsons memory as well as all the other men who perished on that date.

James

[truthergw]

Can anyone please help with any information about what happened to this Submarine on or before this date. I am researching a Gibson, Isaac, Chief Engine Room Artificer 2nd Class, 270632, age 39 from Saltcoats who died at sea on this date.

Thanks

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember reading about K-class submarines with sheer disbelief. The very idea of a steam driven sub complete with funnels gives me the heebiejeebies. All submariners are brave but these were a very special breed of heroes.

[Gilgamesh of Uruk]

May Island wasn't really to do with being steam driven, though. It was the faulty doctrine of the "fleet submarine" operating on the surface with the battlefleet that was the problem there, though many of the other disasters which befell the K class were attributable to the hull openings required for the boilers.

[SteveGarnett]

Does anybody have information regarding this submarine or links to where information can be found?

In anticipation, many thanks.

Steve

[Bob Coulson]

British Vessels Lost At Sea gives sunk in collision in North Sea Jan 31st 1918.

Bob.

[kin47]

Hello

Casualty list for K 17

ADAMS ALBERT V. E.R.A. 3c M 632 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

AGNEW WILLIAM A.B. SS 2844 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

ANTRAM HERBERT W. TY/LT, RNR K 17 31-Jan-18

BERRIMAN THOMAS H. A.B. 213863 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

BINNINGTON CHARLES E. STOKER 1c K 18963 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

BLACKMAN JAMES STOKER 1c K 13078 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

BROWN JACK G. E.R.A. 4c M 8692 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

CARESS HENRY A. STOKER 1c SS 115673 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

CARTER WILLIAM J.F. STOKER 1c K 17477 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

COOK WILLIAM J. L/STOKER K 6363 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

COOLEY WILLIAM C. P.O. 227154 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

COOPER WILLIAM W. L/SIGNALMAN 239571 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

CUNNINGHAM ERNEST S. MIDSHIPMAN, RAN K 17 31-Jan-18

De BANK ARTHUR G.D. STOKER 1c J 22444 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

DRAKE ARTHUR R. A.B. 238786 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

FINCH WILLIAM L/SEAMAN J 1069 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

GALE WILLIAM J. L/STOKER K 11623 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

GIBBS JOHN A.B. J 10934 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

GIBSON ISAAC C.E.R.A. 2c 270632 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

GILL ROBERT L/SEAMAN 211672 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

HAMMOND FRANCIS A.B. J 9547 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

HEARN HENRY J. LCDR K 17 31-Jan-18

HERRING HAROLD L. E.R.A. 4c M 13296 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

HOSKING CECIL J. L/SEAMAN J 16056 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

JONES EDWARD STOKER 1c K 20796 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

KNIGHT GEORGE A. L/TELEGRAPHIST J 8438 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

KNOWLES JAMES E. STOKER 1c SS 115292 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

LIGHTBODY HENRY G. A.B. J 24810 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

LORD FREDERICK E. TELEGRAPHIST J 55202 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

MCDONALD JOHN R. STOKER 1c SS 114477 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

MEADMORE EDWARD J. L/SEAMAN 223356 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

MONTGOMERY JOSEPH R. A.B. J 12871 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

MORRIS ERNEST STOKER P.O. 309458 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

MYOTT DOMINICK E.R.A. 3c M 7565 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

NETTLETON HAROLD A.B. J 20766 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

NOLAN PATRICK STOKER P.O. 284013 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

RICKETTS HENRY L. STOKER 1c K 27466 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

SAMUEL FREDERICK A.B. J 10440 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

SANGSTER LEO F.M. STOKER 1c K 22599 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

SAVAGE CHARLES H. OFFICERS' STEWARD L 2005 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

SAVAGE CHARLES K. STOKER P.O. 311292 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

SINFIELD ALBERT E. L/SEAMAN J 1181 (Ch) K 17 31-Jan-18

TILLEY EDMUND L/STOKER K 10609 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

TYRELL HUGO W.L. LT K 17 31-Jan-18

WARDE CECIL LT K 17 31-Jan-18

WHEBLE HENRY H. A.B. 225581 (Po) K 17 31-Jan-18

WHITE ALFRED A.B. J 6137 (Dev) K 17 31-Jan-18

All best

don

[John Garnett]

Steve,

Try this - details of the class of ship that rammed K17.

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/light-cruiser/hms-Active.html

[Pegasuss]

Lieutenant H.M. TYRRELL R.N. (One of the K17 Casualties) is Remembered on:

STORRINGTON WAR MEMORIAL

[SteveGarnett]

Thanks everyone so far. Don, what does Ty/Lt stand for in Antram? I'm guessing LT is Lieutenant?

Thanks

Also, was K17 rammed by HMS Fearless or another submarine?

[Pegasuss]

K17 was Rammed (accidentally) by 'Fearless'!

Take a look at the link that John posted, it says:

Fearless

Leader 1st Destroyer Flotilla with the Harwich Force.

1916 Leader 12th submarine flotilla Grand Fleet.

'31 January 1918 Accidentally rammed and sank submarine K 17'.

1921 Sold for scrapping.

[SteveGarnett]

Thanks, didn't realise K4 was Fearless. Once again thanks for the responses. The man I'm interested in is Lieutenant Herbert Wilkins Antram who was on board K17 and is named on the Canterbury War Memorial.

[Martin Bennitt]

Thanks everyone so far. Don, what does Ty/Lt stand for in Antram? I'm guessing LT is Lieutenant?

Thanks

temporary lieutenant? cheers Martin B

[historydavid]

Steve,

As Martin suggests TY = Temporary (ie acting).

In what is often called "The Battle of May Island" the K 17 was accidently rammed by HM Light Cruiser Fearless, which was leading the 12th Submarine Flotilla.

The K 17 sank like a stone but 18 men managed to escape through the hatch. In the confusion of the night the destroyers escorting the main body (battleships etc) ploughed through the scene. Only 9 of the men survived.

Another K boat, K 4, was also lost after being accidently rammed by the K 6, which was taking avoiding action to avoid being rammed by the Battlecruiser Australia. The K 7 also ran over the sinking hull of the K 4.

In addition the K 22 was rammed by K 14, and as they lay locked together they were run down by the Battlecruiser Inflexible, which struck K 22 and bent her already damaged bows at right angles to the hull. Fortunately both K 14 and K 22 survived.

Not one of the Navy's most memorable moments.

Source: British Warship Losses in the Ironclad Era 1860-1919 by David Hepper.

Best wishes

David

[jdwn1]

Steve

A good source of information on the K class submarines is the book The K Boats by Don Everitt 1963

An entire chapter is devoted to the Battle of May Island.

Here is a photo of the damage to the Fearless after she collided with K17

Ian

[clive_hughes]

Hi Steve,

As it happens I have the Memorial Plaque for AB Willliam Agnew, a casualty of this incident, which was given to me some years ago by a relative who knew little beyond a rumour of death whilst in the submarines.

I asked for assistance from the RN Submarine Museum, Gosport who were very helpful: they sent a good 4-page fact sheet on K17, including technical details, account of the May Island incident and list of casualties. They also sent a copy of Agnew's Submarine Service card (different item from his RN record of service), & copy page from the Plymouth Naval Memorial register.

They also enclosed copies from A.S.Evans' Beneath the Waves: a History of HM Submarine Losses (William Kimber, London 1986) which incorporated an excellent K17 survivor's account by Signalman G.T.W.Kimbell. A charge was made for this research, but I felt the fee was well worthwhile.

They also recommended the book The K Boats by Don Everitt (various editions - see Bookfinder.com).

best of luck,

LST_164

[J T Gray]

They also sent a copy of Agnew's Submarine Service card (different item from his RN record of service), & copy page from the Plymouth Naval Memorial register.

Sorry, at risk of a hijack here... If you could reply by PM, LST_164, we can let Steve have his thread back.

Do you have the contact for the appropriate person at the Submarine Museum, please? I was unaware of the existence of seperate Submarine Service cards, and I suspect the one for my family submariner (see my sig) would make very interesting reading!

Many thanks,

Adrian

[Clio]

The story of the Battle of May Island will be told in a forthcoming book about submarines lost around Britain called Silent Warriors, vol 3 by Ron Young, published by Tempus

[kin47]

"The story of the Battle of May Island will be told in a forthcoming book about submarines lost around Britain called Silent Warriors, vol 3 by Ron Young, published by Tempus"

Volume 1 is brilliant. Did I miss Volume 2?

All best

don