Special Arms & Ammunition

[78th Battalion]

What are (WWI) they??? ADAMS CUPS and KNOB KERRIES

Thanks in advance

Ed

[montbrehain]

Dont know about an Adams cup but heres the definition of a knob kerrie

A short club with one knobbed end, used as a weapon by warriors of certain South African peoples.

[Afrikaans knopkierie : knop, knob (from Middle Dutch cnoppe) + kieri, club (from Khoikhoin kirri, stick).]

[auchonvillerssomme]

Adams cup...don't know but maybe a cricket box.

Mick

[78th Battalion]

This is from 78th Battalion Diaries.

[Chris Henschke]

What date is the order? That may help narrow it down.

Chris Henschke

[Filbert70]

Knobkerries were used during trench raids and close combat. I am pretty certain there are descriptions of their use in Martin Middlebrook's 'The first Day of the Somme' and also Sassoon's 'Memoirs of an Infantry Officer'... although my memory's a bit hit and miss.

[78th Battalion]

What date is the order? That may help narrow it down.

Chris Henschke

Operation Order 50 - February 18, 1917

To raid F.L.T. from point S.15.a2.5. to a point S.9.e.25.20

Object: 1. to kill germans

2. Capture prisoners

3. Destroy enemy mine shafts and dugouts

4. Collect info.

Ed

[truthergw]

This is a pure guess. It isn't the cup of a grenade launcher is it?

[asdarley]

This is a pure guess. It isn't the cup of a grenade launcher is it?

Agree could be the grenade launcher. Adams Cups was also the name given to an old magic trick where a ball was made to appear as if it had passed through three stacked cups. Maybe from a music hall reference?

[Pegasuss]

Adams Cups was also the name given to an old magic trick where a ball was made to appear as if it had passed through three stacked cups. Maybe from a music hall reference?

Could it have been a refference to some sort of Boobytrap?

[truthergw]

Could it have been a refference to some sort of Boobytrap?

Trench raiders would not normally booby trap anything. They went in quick, and hard, did what they had to do and back as quick as they could. A gang of thugs who carried sharp shovels and clubs for bashing your skull in and bundles of bombs for throwing into dugouts. Live prisoners were good but not essential. Bits off a uniform would do. Not at all the proper mind set for setting boobytraps.

[Pegasuss]

O.k. I stand Corrected! (just a thought!).

I did'nt (seriously) think that I was right, just thought I would throw the Idea in the Hat!

I have heard of such raids before (can't remember where/when).

[truthergw]

I was not correcting you. I was just responding to your perfectly reasonable suggestion with my take on it. If I can just expand on my reply and explain why I think boobytraps would not normally be set on a trench raid. A booby trap is a very dangerous device. It is almost as dangerous to the person setting it as the intended victim. It needs to be carefully made, carefully handled and carefully concealed before setting it. Care would have to be taken to make sure that one of your mates didn't set it off as you withdrew from the enemy trench. Having said all that, I am quite sure that somewhere at sometime somebody did set a trap before falling back. I do not think that it was standard procedure so there would not be a listed device to draw from the stores.

[Pegasuss]

Tom.

You did'nt need to explain, I sort of read all that into You previous reply!

On reflection, My Idea seems wrong! (as You say Why would a bunch of Thugs be messing around with such Delicate Devices)!

[Guest Trenchwire]

This is a pure guess. It isn't the cup of a grenade launcher is it?

NO IM AFRAID THAT WAS CALLED A BURNS CUP DISCHARGER, AND IT FIRED THE NUMBER 36 GRENADE WITH A GAS CHECK PLATE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE GRENADE.

[ian turner]

Without knowing for sure, I would also conclude that the Adams cup refered to rifle grenade discharger cups. The list includes rifle greandes, and it is thus logical that the discharger cups would also be required.

Ian

[Guest Trenchwire]

Actually having read that inventory the adams cup must be this thing, as the 23 rifle grenade could only be fired using it,i have three of these myself and i never knew thats what they were called, you learn something everyday on this site.

[Pegasuss]

Trenchwire.

Thank You!

I have had this swirling around in the Grey Cells for days! (wondering What It Was!)

[59165]

Actually having read that inventory the adams cup must be this thing, as the 23 rifle grenade could only be fired useing it,i have three of these myself and i never knew thats what they were called, you learn something everyday on this site.

Aye,you may have 3 of em,you greedy git but,that aint yours in the photo

You aint got a hook quill & also...they wouldnt have had a bayo like that at the time of the no.23 Mills.

But you knew that anyway...greedy git

[Guest Trenchwire]

Aye,you may have 3 of em,you greedy git but,that aint yours in the photo

You aint got a hook quill & also...they wouldnt have had a bayo like that at the time of the no.23 Mills.

But you knew that anyway...greedy git

OH YES IT IS

[wyliecoyote]

Knobkerries were used during trench raids and close combat

Could Knobkerries just be a Nicname for trench clubs? How many Zulu weapons would there truely be on the Western Front?

[ian turner]

Knobkerrie is a well-known name for that particular club, not a nickname.

The British Army had many words and names from their colonial postings, particularly Hindi words.

Ian

[wyliecoyote]

Thanks Ian, my Great Uncle was a Kiwi in WWI, but I know very little about the Armies of the UK or their weapons. Never would have suspected they really used a true knobkerrie anywhere except in Africa. Does any one have a period photo of one?

[Andrew Upton]

Knobkerrie is a well-known name for that particular club, not a nickname.

The British Army had many words and names from their colonial postings, particularly Hindi words.

Ian

WC is really correct though on his point, in that any trench club could generically be called a knobkerry, and vice-versa, thus those being issued for the raid are unlikely to be genuine Zulu made items.

[Max Poilu]

Agreed, I think the term is being used as a generic one to describe the more common clubs. I pictured a variety in this topic:

British Trench Raids, Tools, Equipment, Dress, and Tactics