Pte Bessey Notts Derby 94844 / Essex 48053 ?

[rbrauerei]

Private C.J. Bessey, Notts Derby, 94844. Entitlements are BWM and VM; not entitled to 1914/15 Star. Sometime transferred to Essex Regiment, 48053. (Now, why would someone want to leave the Sherwood Foresters? )

That's all I know from the MIC; although I've looked at many of the SF (Notts Derby) posts here and the associated websites to gain some insights. I'd be happy to narrow it down to a battalion or two (or three).

Possibly one of the disbanded battn's? Left due to sickness and went back as a draft to different regiment? No six digit number; so, not part of a TF battalion after 1917?

Any insights appreciated.

Thanks!

[Andrew Hesketh]

Too late tonight to think about this one. I'll be back though - looks like a challenge!

[rbrauerei]

Too late tonight to think about this one. I'll be back though - looks like a challenge!

But at least I planted the subliminal seed. Thanks!

[Andrew Hesketh]

Yes, it's bugging me already!

OK, not a territorial as you correctly state (though I've got some men in this range of numbers who were territorials - it's not an exact science).

94844 is a number that would have been allotted to a conscript. I don't have much evidence for numbers in that area (Geoff, you listening?! ) but they contain a lot of men whose only time with the Sherwoods was a) in their reserve battalions, or b ) being transferred in or out. I also note that an above average number of these men 'died' (as opposed to KIA or DOW), so probably not, on the whole, the cream of the crop. In addition, their enlistment dates are all over the place from mid 1916 to well into 1917, therefore I would imagine that following conscription a regimental number was allotted to them but they were not immediately called up (does that make sense?).

I would suspect that his time with the Sherwoods was relatively brief - long enough to get it on the MIC, but probably not long.

Battalion? Well shouldn't be territorial, but after that it could be just about anything. Here's a sample of battalions from his number series:

1st

7th

1/5th

16th

9th

3rd

So, in conclusion - I don't know.

Sorry

[rbrauerei]

As always, every little bit helps and you've given me some things to consider...

I agree that his time in the SF was short; next if he entered service prior to 1917 (tho' my gut tells me this is the less likely possibility), he had some kind of less than cream of crop issues and got delayed going to the front; or the more likely scenario is that he was a 1917 or later conscript into one of the SF battalions in the UK and then went to the Essex when sent into theater. I haven't yet looked at the Essex... And that may be more of a "dog's breakfast"...

While I'm certainly not an expert in any means, my neophyte glance suggested the 16th as a possibility; the only place we coincided.

But at least I know more now than I did a few hours ago... Thanks!

[Andrew Hesketh]

This is my gut feeling now, rather than a provable stance, but I actually agree with your summation. If pushed I would say:

* conscription c. August 1917

* with either 3rd or 4th reserve battalions

* a reinforcement for the 16th Battalion Sherwoods in 1918 (probably after March when the 'held-back by Lloyd George' mob were released to Haig, thus probably April / May)

* 16th were reduced to cadre in May 1918 (hence our agreed idea that his time with the Sherwoods was short)

* your chap transferred to the Essex at that time.

[Stebie9173]

The enlistment date variations could stem from Training Reserve numbers being issued late 1916 through 1918 and then N&D numbers on transfer at the time of posting to a battalion.

Steve.

[Andrew Hesketh]

Yes, I'm sure that must be a factor Steve.

[rbrauerei]

This is my gut feeling now, rather than a provable stance, but I actually agree with your summation. If pushed I would say:

* conscription c. August 1917

* with either 3rd or 4th reserve battalions

* a reinforcement for the 16th Battalion Sherwoods in 1918 (probably after March when the 'held-back by Lloyd George' mob were released to Haig, thus probably April / May)

* 16th were reduced to cadre in May 1918 (hence our agreed idea that his time with the Sherwoods was short)

* your chap transferred to the Essex at that time.

Unfortunately, I think all we'll ever have on our friend Bessey is gut feelings and speculation. I looked to see if his service records were available at ancestory/com (since he's a "B"), but they have only one Bessey and it's not C.J.

Owen, our resident Essex expert, suggested that his Essex number is a "late 1917 transfer."

So... Speculating even more; Bessey's time with the Sherwoods may have been even shorter than we first imagined. The mid-1917 conscription seems plausible; into one of the Sherwood reserve battalions; but then transferring to the Essex as he went abroad as a draft. And unfortunately, there's no telling which Essex battalion he joined.

Another un-answerable question I'm sure from a neophyte; but to me this begs the question of why issue medals with a number and regiment with which a soldier may have never seen combat. Wouldn't Pte Bessey feel more kinship with his Essex trenchmates than anyone he may have only stood in line with at some Sherwood depot? Doesn't quite seem fair (or dare I say even logical)...

[stevem49]

Yes, it's bugging me already!

OK, not a territorial as you correctly state (though I've got some men in this range of numbers who were territorials - it's not an exact science).

94844 is a number that would have been allotted to a conscript. I don't have much evidence for numbers in that area (Geoff, you listening?! ) but they contain a lot of men whose only time with the Sherwoods was a) in their reserve battalions, or b ) being transferred in or out. I also note that an above average number of these men 'died' (as opposed to KIA or DOW), so probably not, on the whole, the cream of the crop. In addition, their enlistment dates are all over the place from mid 1916 to well into 1917, therefore I would imagine that following conscription a regimental number was allotted to them but they were not immediately called up (does that make sense?).

I would suspect that his time with the Sherwoods was relatively brief - long enough to get it on the MIC, but probably not long.

Battalion? Well shouldn't be territorial, but after that it could be just about anything. Here's a sample of battalions from his number series:

1st

7th

1/5th

16th

9th

3rd

So, in conclusion - I don't know.

Sorry

If it helps he is not a 9th Bn Man ! I only have one man near him 94853.

stevem

[Andrew Hesketh]

Of course it helps! Welcome back Steve.

[mikebriggs]

I'd cast the net wider - sorry

From his number he was more than likely a conscript (and possibly a good one) and could easily have ended up in any one of the SF Battalions, including the TF. I have a lot of 9**** who served with the 6th Battn.

Only way to be sure is looking at the Medal Rolls in Kew - instant answer

Mike