Tank Week

[Malcolm Harvey]

Looks like 130 was in Norwich.

See link for recent article in local paper:

Evening News

Malcolm.

[Mark Hansen]

I'll bow to your greater knowledge but the seller says it is 1918; would that make a difference?

I'd have to agree with Centurion. Even if it was a tank bank visit, the tank would likely be carrying weapons whether real or otherwise. Also, the 1918 on the back of the card doesn't necessarily guarantee that it was taken in 1918.

[tanks3]

I'd have to agree with Centurion. Even if it was a tank bank visit, the tank would likely be carrying weapons whether real or otherwise. Also, the 1918 on the back of the card doesn't necessarily guarantee that it was taken in 1918.

It is definately a presentation tank and the photo would have been taken in 1919 - 1920. There was another photo of this tank for auction a week or so ago by the same seller. It pictured the tank in a different position in the street shown

Tanks3

[Sidearm]

The photo of 290 in Bolton does present a small problem though. The Friends of the Lincoln Tank website has a list of allegedly all the towns in England and Wales that received presentation tanks, but I've already found at least two that aren't listed and this appears to be another one. Can anyone confirm this location really is Bolton? (Shame on me but I've never been there - apologies Bolton!)

Incidentally another photo of 290 appeared on the Tank Museum's website in March 2006. Here's the link but I don't know if it'll still work:

www.tankmuseum.org.uk/newspack_0803.html

Gwyn

[centurion]

The photo of 290 in Bolton does present a small problem though. The Friends of the Lincoln Tank website has a list of allegedly all the towns in England and Wales that received presentation tanks, but I've already found at least two that aren't listed and this appears to be another one. Can anyone confirm this location really is Bolton? (Shame on me but I've never been there - apologies Bolton!)

Incidentally another photo of 290 appeared on the Tank Museum's website in March 2006. Here's the link but I don't know if it'll still work:

www.tankmuseum.org.uk/newspack_0803.html

Gwyn

The centre of Bolton has changed sigificantly over time so unless some one can match up old, clearly identified and provenanced photos of Bolton it could be difficult. I've also found some discrepancies with the FotLT list this could be because its possible that not every town offered a tank may have accepted it (for example there was considerable oppostition in Carlilse and it was only accepted by a narrow vote in the council) so that tanks may have been switched to towns who would accept one. Certainly not every town that asked for a tank got one (some just got some captured guns) so demand in general was probably greater than supply. However Bolton appears to have had a tank week so that it would have been offered a presentation tank.

[Mark Hansen]

...Can anyone confirm this location really is Bolton? (Shame on me but I've never been there - apologies Bolton!)

Incidentally another photo of 290 appeared on the Tank Museum's website in March 2006. Here's the link but I don't know if it'll still work:

www.tankmuseum.org.uk/newspack_0803.html

Gwyn

According to the Bovington link the photos, the first of which is identical to the ebay listing, came from the files of the Bolton Evening News. It would probably be safe to assume that the ebay photo does show the arrival of 290 at Bolton.

[Sidearm]

The centre of Bolton has changed sigificantly over time so unless some one can match up old, clearly identified and provenanced photos of Bolton it could be difficult. I've also found some discrepancies with the FotLT list this could be because its possible that not every town offered a tank may have accepted it (for example there was considerable oppostition in Carlilse and it was only accepted by a narrow vote in the council) so that tanks may have been switched to towns who would accept one. Certainly not every town that asked for a tank got one (some just got some captured guns) so demand in general was probably greater than supply. However Bolton appears to have had a tank week so that it would have been offered a presentation tank.

There was considerable opposition in Rugby too. Funny thing there is they were given a gun, then the Army decided they wanted it back, so back it went. When Rugby was offered a tank some on the Council didn't want it fearing the same thing would happen again.

I'm not clear whether each town to hold a tank week actually got a tank. I've no evidence that Abercynon got one though they certainly held a Tank Week, for instance.

Gwyn

[centurion]

There was considerable opposition in Rugby too. Funny thing there is they were given a gun, then the Army decided they wanted it back, so back it went. When Rugby was offered a tank some on the Council didn't want it fearing the same thing would happen again.

I'm not clear whether each town to hold a tank week actually got a tank. I've no evidence that Abercynon got one though they certainly held a Tank Week, for instance.

Gwyn

Perhaps you had to have had a real tank at your tank week to get a real presentation one.

The Mayor of Lampeter apparently demanded that they be given a German tank (he wrote to the Prime Minister) they got a howitzer instead.

[Sidearm]

Perhaps you had to have had a real tank at your tank week to get a real presentation one.

The Mayor of Lampeter apparently demanded that they be given a German tank (he wrote to the Prime Minister) they got a howitzer instead.

Not the case - Pembroke Dock held a Tank Week with a dummy tank, but got a real one. Not a bad exchange in my view.

The Mayor of Lampeter had the right idea - get an A7V as a niche tourism attraction in 90 years time. Rarely are councils that forward looking (I can say that - I work for one).

[delta]

Not sure when the original tank was removed but.....

this one is there now

[tanks3]

Delta,

Nice photo. Where is this?

Tanks3

[tanks3]

Bolton certainly received a presentation tank. There is a full list of the towns that were awarded the presentation tanks in the April 16th 1919 issue of The Silver Bullet. This was the official bulletin of The National war savings Committee. It was issued fortnightly and, as I say, this issue contained a full list as part of an article entitled "Tanks for Towns". To quote from that article:

" The part played by "Tank" Banks in raising money to bring the war to a successful conclusion is being recognised by the prsentation of war battered tanks to some 265 towns, as an acknowledgment of the successful efforts made by the citizens to procure investment in National War Bonds and War savings certificates. The Tanks have been awarded by the National War Savings Committee who have kept exhaustive records of the results obtained from each area.

The War office with the consent of the treasury has undertaken to deliver the tanks to the towns, as soon as practicable. The first batch of tanks is already on its way back from the battlefields of France and Flanders.

The Local war Savings Committee in each area has been notified of the presentation of the tank, and, in conjunction with the Civic Authority, will arrange for its reception and disposition as a permanent memorial of the town's financial effort for the War.

The historic tank "Egbert" which was offered as a prize for the best results in the recent "Feed the Guns" campaign has been won by the town of West Hartlepool, where the total of investments in War Bonds and War Savings Certificates represented an average of £31 0s 1d per head of population during the period 1st October 1918 and 18th January 1919".

There then follwed a list of the 265 towns. Bolton was included.

The article begs a few questions. Where are records kept by the National War Savings Committee's records referred to above now? Note the period of the competition - until January 1919 which suggests maybe there were tank weeks after the armistace.

As a last point, does anyone have a photo of the presentation tank given to Lincoln? Would love to have a copy if you do.

Tanks3

[centurion]

Bolton certainly received a presentation tank. There is a full list of the towns that were awarded the presentation tanks in the April 16th 1919 issue of The Silver Bullet. This was the official bulletin of The National war savings Committee. It was issued fortnightly and, as I say, this issue contained a full list as part of an article entitled "Tanks for Towns". To quote from that article:

" The part played by "Tank" Banks in raising money to bring the war to a successful conclusion is being recognised by the prsentation of war battered tanks to some 265 towns, as an acknowledgment of the successful efforts made by the citizens to procure investment in National War Bonds and War savings certificates. The Tanks have been awarded by the National War Savings Committee who have kept exhaustive records of the results obtained from each area.

The War office with the consent of the treasury has undertaken to deliver the tanks to the towns, as soon as practicable. The first batch of tanks is already on its way back from the battlefields of France and Flanders.

The Local war Savings Committee in each area has been notified of the presentation of the tank, and, in conjunction with the Civic Authority, will arrange for its reception and disposition as a permanent memorial of the town's financial effort for the War.

The historic tank "Egbert" which was offered as a prize for the best results in the recent "Feed the Guns" campaign has been won by the town of West Hartlepool, where the total of investments in War Bonds and War Savings Certificates represented an average of £31 0s 1d per head of population during the period 1st October 1918 and 18th January 1919".

There then follwed a list of the 265 towns. Bolton was included.

The article begs a few questions. Where are records kept by the National War Savings Committee's records referred to above now? Note the period of the competition - until January 1919 which suggests maybe there were tank weeks after the armistace.

As a last point, does anyone have a photo of the presentation tank given to Lincoln? Would love to have a copy if you do.

Tanks3

The Hartlepool info solves one mystery. These is a photo in the Hartlepool council archives showing the mayor and other dignitaries, local politicians etc standing on Nelson (the tank's home service number is clearly visible) but the record states that it shows the presentation of Egbert to the town. As other records I have found show that Nelson was indeed the tank bank that went to this town then the photo is clearly actually Tank Week which has been confused with the later presentation of Egbert. A number of local record show similar confusion ( for example Egbert was Luton's tank bank but local newspaper accounts also have it as their presentation tank which it was not.)

There appears to be some confusion over Lincoln's tank bank and its presentation tank . The tank bank was City of Lincoln and the presntation tank was 148 (Tank3 there's a picture on the disc I sent you) but on whether these were the same tank I've seen differng accounts none offering conclusive evidence. It would be common sense if they were but common sense doesn't always seem to have applied)

Its interesting that Egbert was the prize for the "Feed the Guns" campaign as I think that this was a seperate set of weeks from the tank bank. I think that Julian may have been the tank week prize.

Any chance of a copy of that list?

[tanks3]

Centurian,

I will get a copy off to you in the post. I have seen the picture of 148. I was not aware this was Lincoln's presentation tank. Can you tell me where you have established that fact from. Is the picture of 148 at Lincoln?

Tanks3

[centurion]

I have to admit only secondary - The Friends of the Lincoln Tank and the Tank Museum have both indicated that this photo of 148 is the Lincoln presentation tank but I've seen no corroborating evidence such as a contemporary newspaper article etc. I've marked it down as a probable but not confirmed.

[tanks3]

Centurian,

The problem i have heare is that I have a newspaper report of the presntation but it gives no number for the tank or photo. What I can establish from the report is where the tank went and resided during its life in Lincoln. This was in Wickham Gardens, Westgate. It was overshadowed by the huge water tower and so I will know the tank should I ever see a photo. That's the reason I wondered if the photo you have sent me is indeed 48 at Lincoln.

Tanks3

[Sidearm]

The Silver Bullet article is very interesting. This is new information to me, and I'd also be interested in obtaining a copy if this is possible.

As for the records of the National War Savings Committee. These are at The National Archives, Kew, London. The only file I'm aware of that refers to the presentation of tanks is NSC7/38.

The photo posted by Delta of the Chieftain Stillbrew is in Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire, opposite Asda. The tank is the property of Pembroke Dock Town Council, having been presented in around 1998 by the commandant of the nearby tank range at Castlemartin. The tank is still there. You can't get inside incidentally - it's been welded shut.

[Sidearm]

Another thought - it shouldn't be a surprise that Tank Weeks continued after the Armistice. The Government would have been in debt from war expenditure and still needed money even though the war was over.

[centurion]

Another thought - it shouldn't be a surprise that Tank Weeks continued after the Armistice. The Government would have been in debt from war expenditure and still needed money even though the war was over.

The latest date I can find for a tank week is towards the end of Oct 1918. I have seen evidence of some other fete type events taking place in late 1918 after the armistice but mainly because everything had already been prepared and local groups wanted to do things they already rehearsed for/ prepared floats etc. These were not tank weeks. Looking at the reports of the later tank weeks the total take was much much less than the earlier ones (the towns were much smaller etc). I'd think that in 1919 the patriotic fervour to help win the war would be over and the enthusiasm to lend the government money very much diminished. The end date for the competition of January 1919 might well be the result of the need to complete the accounting (almost certainly all done manually). The 'Feed the Guns' events I think were in any case not tank weeks (there were gun weeks and destroyer weeks and even an airship week at Pembroke docks and I've seen seperate figures for monies raised by the gun week and the tank week for the same town)

[centurion]

Centurian,

The problem i have heare is that I have a newspaper report of the presntation but it gives no number for the tank or photo. What I can establish from the report is where the tank went and resided during its life in Lincoln. This was in Wickham Gardens, Westgate. It was overshadowed by the huge water tower and so I will know the tank should I ever see a photo. That's the reason I wondered if the photo you have sent me is indeed 48 at Lincoln.

Tanks3

I think I've seen something to the effect that the tank was moved. This was often the case . For example the Tank Bank tank at Worcester was stationed near the Cathederal, The presentation tank was placed elsewhere for posibly a year before being moved to its final location in another local park I've seen one 'eyewitness' report stating that the same tank was moved from the Cathederal to resting place no. one and then onto the park where it was eventually broken up (if this were true the tank also changed sex during its travels). The report was made some 80 years after the event and memories tend to telescope. It would make sense for 148 to be Lincoln's tank as male tanks tended to be presented to town involved in tank development and manufacture. There is also another possibility which is that Lincoln had more than one memorial tank - Fosters may well have had some spares to hand.

[Gerald Moore]

Richard Pullen, in "The Landships of Lincoln", suggests that Lincoln's presentation tank was a Mk.I. "After much deliberation Wickham Gardens, off the historic Bailgate, was finally decided on as the site for Lincolns souvenir tank. The Mk I William Foster built machine was laid to rest in the shadow of the of the imposing water tower. The Lincoln Leader newspaper for November 1st 1919 reported that the tank was well received by the citizens of Lincoln, and that the 'over the top Mk I veteran of the Somme had been specially chosen as it was one of Lincolns own creations and had finally returned to its birthplace'...it stood in Wickham Gardens for less than twenty years, and by the late 1930s the tank had gone. Spiraling upkeep and a string of injured children combined to seal its fate and Lincolns tank went the same way as most others and was unceremoniously scrapped."

[centurion]

Richard Pullen, in "The Landships of Lincoln", suggests that Lincoln's presentation tank was a Mk.I. "After much deliberation Wickham Gardens, off the historic Bailgate, was finally decided on as the site for Lincolns souvenir tank. The Mk I William Foster built machine was laid to rest in the shadow of the of the imposing water tower. The Lincoln Leader newspaper for November 1st 1919 reported that the tank was well received by the citizens of Lincoln, and that the 'over the top Mk I veteran of the Somme had been specially chosen as it was one of Lincolns own creations and had finally returned to its birthplace'...it stood in Wickham Gardens for less than twenty years, and by the late 1930s the tank had gone. Spiraling upkeep and a string of injured children combined to seal its fate and Lincolns tank went the same way as most others and was unceremoniously scrapped."

Unfortunately this doesn't solve the problem as I've seen all too many cases where any WW1 tank is referred to as a Mk I. One would need to see a photo to be absolutely certain.

[delta]

Agree with the last sentiments; whilst it would have been fitting for one of the Marl K's to "come home". I have seen no mention of any that did get back to the UK.

[centurion]

There were some surviving Mk Is at Bovingdon but this does not tie in with the report that the tank had been returned from France. All too often newspaper reports were spiced up (of course this would never happen today ). For example a great many tanks were reported "to have seen action on the Somme" including the Mk IVs touring the US in 1918

[centurion]

The photo posted by Delta of the Chieftain Stillbrew is in Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire, opposite Asda. The tank is the property of Pembroke Dock Town Council, having been presented in around 1998 by the commandant of the nearby tank range at Castlemartin. The tank is still there. You can't get inside incidentally - it's been welded shut.

Here's what used to be there