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NORTHDUK

Mechanical Transport Colours and Markings

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montbrehain

[quote name='Chris Henschke' date='Apr 19 2007, 03:28 PM' post='668634' Irish soldiers disguised as members of an AIF

You want to be careful saying that , people will believe it :lol: Good pic Chris.

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NORTHDUK
Heres another I took in Ireland during the filming of Michael Collins. Not sure what type it is though ? "MO"

post-13272-1176966473.jpg

This looks like a Hallford 3 tonner. What a marvellous survivor! Do you remember if it was chain driven?

Gordon McLaughlin

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NORTHDUK
Here's another shamrock on a truck. Irish soldiers disguised as members of an AIF mechanical transport company in early 1919.

This reinforces my belief that the shamrock or clover symbol is a tactical marking rather than a formation sign. The lorries are Peerless TC 3 or 5 tonners. It's a smashing photograph.

Gordon McLaughlin

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montbrehain

Gordon , I cant remember if the truck in Ireland was chain driven or not. Do you think its a Halford like the one in my other post ? I believe Halfords were only built up until the 20s then they turned to making Refrigeration units for ships. Heres another pic :D "MO"

post-13272-1177064011.jpg

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NORTHDUK
This may not be relevant to your researches but MT operated by the RNAS up until at least mid 1916 seem to be finished in light grey with the title R.N.A.S in white on each side. I havn't got any photos to hand, but they all seem similar.

As far as serial numbers are concerned I assume you meanIndex marks. All the RNAS vehicles I have seen in photos where they are apparent they seem to have been civilian marks issued by the London County Council in the series from LF to LM.

The Karrier lorry in post 17 would seem to have been registered by Middlesex County Council (MC) whilst the lorry in post 22 would seem to be registered bt London County Council in the XA series of marks

Hope this helps

Duncan

Thanks for your reply to my enquiry. The RNAS is certainly relevant to my enquiries as is the RN and, from April 1918, the RAF.

The serial numbers that I was thinking of are not the civilian registration numbers that most vehicles display. Most of the vehicles in British Army service prior to WW2 were registered by Middlesex CC in specially allocated batches but also had serial numbers in broadly consecutive batches allocated by the WD, either at the time they were ordered or when they were delivered. A new, rationalised system for these numbers began c1920 but vehicles in service during WW1 were numbered in an earlier system and it is this system that I am interested in. The serial numbers are often visible as white numbers or letter/number combinations painted on the bonnet sides and on the tailboard.

I don't know how these were allocated or how the system worked and I am seeking information on this as well as on vehicle markings of all kinds.

Thanks again for your help.

Gordon McLaughlin

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NORTHDUK
Gordon , I cant remember if the truck in Ireland was chain driven or not. Do you think its a Halford like the one in my other post ? I believe Halfords were only built up until the 20s then they turned to making Refrigeration units for ships. Heres another pic :D "MO"

post-13272-1177064011.jpg

It certainly looks like a Hallford to judge by the characteristic bonnet shape. They built both 3 ton and 30 cwt lorries for the WD and impressed vehicles would also have been in service. I don't know which this is and it could be a commercial lorry re-bodied for the film although it looks a bit tatty for that.

Do you know anything about the Vulcan in your later photograph?

Gordon McLaughlin

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montbrehain

Yes the vulcan was in a magazine about 10 years ago. The owner lived somewhere round my way. Not sure if he ever finished it , but ill try and follow it up "MO"post-13272-1177108233.jpg

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walrus

Gordon McLaughlin wrote Yesterday, 10:38 AM

This reinforces my belief that the shamrock or clover symbol is a tactical marking rather than a formation sign.

Gordon,

I suspect that the 'shamrock' symbol isn't - From its shape, I'd guess that the symbol is a 'club', as in card suits: Possibly a brigade sign within a Division?.

I would expect a shamrock leaves to be broader and 'flatter' at the end, rather than circular as in the example illustrated.

Tom the Walrus.

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montbrehain

Tom , I think I'm the one who started calling it a shamrock. The photo was captioned Irish division, and so I thought it was the shamrock on the side of the truck. Still looking for that truck ! dya fancy being a drivers mate :D "MO" P.s. GWS are having a do 6/7 of may at Ft Nelson. I may pop up and have a chat with the blokes . any chance of you making it ?

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walrus

Hi Mo,

I'll go along with the Driver's mate bit (providing I don't have to be let loose on the engine :) ) - I've even got copies of the relevent paperwork.

As for Fort Nelson, I'm sorry, but I can't make it this time around.

ATB

Tom

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montbrehain

No you only got to swing the handle :D I aint getting out in that rain :lol: Hopefully bump into you one day Tom ? "MO"post-13272-1177172799.jpg

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NORTHDUK
Gordon McLaughlin wrote Yesterday, 10:38 AM

Gordon,

I suspect that the 'shamrock' symbol isn't - From its shape, I'd guess that the symbol is a 'club', as in card suits: Possibly a brigade sign within a Division?.

I would expect a shamrock leaves to be broader and 'flatter' at the end, rather than circular as in the example illustrated.

Tom the Walrus.

I'm inclined to agree that the shamrock is actually an ace of clubs. If this is so, though, you'd expect that other vehicles would display the other symbols, heart, spade and diamond. Looking through as many photographs as I can find, I can't see any trace of the other symbols although the club is quite common.

In an article I read recently, the author said that vehicles that were overhauled in workshops in France were sometimes repainted in grey, replacing an earlier khaki paint applied when the vehicles entered service. He didn't say what he meant by khaki, unfortunately, as the word has so many possible interpretations as to be almost meaningless!

I gather that the Vulcan in the photograph is a 1918 model but I don't know how the restoration progressed.

Gordon McLaughlin

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montbrehain

Gordon , do you have any pics of the wartime Austin truck ? the one one with 2 propshafts . 1 each going to rear wheel. I believe there is a bloke up Lincolnshire way who has one , but I have never seen it. "MO"

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NORTHDUK
Gordon , do you have any pics of the wartime Austin truck ? the one one with 2 propshafts . 1 each going to rear wheel. I believe there is a bloke up Lincolnshire way who has one , but I have never seen it. "MO"

I have a couple of photographs of the Austin but my scanner is not working properly and I can't get an image worth posting. If you have a copy of Vanderven's "Observer's Army Vehicles Directory to 1940", there is a picture on P201 of an Austin in RN service with a field kitchen body. I've tried scanning it for you but without success. I don't know if the scanner problem is something to do with the software or if it's the machine itself that's at fault.

I've attached some notes on the lorry that might be of interest.

Gordon McLaughlin

Austin_Lorry.doc

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montbrehain

Thanks for that Gordon, I will keep my eye open for any other vehicles that I may come across ( did you see my pics in Crossley tender thread ?) Also If you come across any I would be grateful for the information . "MO!

post-13272-1179594600.jpg

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cahoehler
I am researching the Mechanical Transport used by the British and Commonwealth forces during World War One.

Gordon

Some pix of 'green' Four Wheel Drive Model B motor lorries. They are of a higher resolution than usual.

1. IWM

509097540_d35a886055_o.jpg

2. Hays Antique Truck Museum

509097536_bc35108cf0_o.jpg

3. The Goslings'

509097530_98a0146a20_o.jpg

Some more to follow

Carl Hoehler

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cahoehler

Gordon

Some more 'green' FWDs

1. The Goslings'

509097532_a303555b79_o.jpg

509097534_2ef8a0291e_o.jpg

2. Chris Hodge

509097528_931ac72fd8_o.jpg

Carl Hoehler

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montbrehain

Nice Photos Carl , Did you see the ones that were on just before you posted yours ? must have been removed ? Here,s another of a four wheel drive 4 wheel steering, seems nothing is new"MO"

post-13272-1179831352.jpg

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cartoss

A copy of "Army Service Corps 1902 -1918" by Michael Young ISBN 085052 730 9. is a useful guide to the corps with some good info in the script and comprehensive annexes.

There is a copy of a painting/propoganda illustration of an ASC lorry being attacked by Uhlans on the retreat from Mons. The vehicle is in Pickfords livery.

I take it that the modern photos of ASC vehicles are of lorries out on the show circuit. My interest is ASC and we field a "GS hairy" with mud taboggans etc.

Regards Jamie

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delta

what's a GS hairy?

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walrus

G.S Hairy: A draught horse belonging to the Army

(from Brophy & Partridge)

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delta

VMT

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Raster Scanning
Nice Photos Carl , Did you see the ones that were on just before you posted yours ? must have been removed ?

I self moderated them as they were too large. I will post again when reduced, here are the first two.

post-76-1179933953.jpg

post-76-1179934060.jpg

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montbrehain

Great pics , This is turning in to a good thread :) "MO"

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