corisande Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 (edited) I am certain that it is the same man, same three Christian names and same Service Record. It is covered in the press reports I would invite you to check on FmP or BNA. I was loathe to post the actual reports here but I guess as you have highlighted it, I should add one of these reports Both trials lead to similar reports Actually his life was quite fascinating and disreputable at the same time. Look at the earlier information that the OP had put on about his marriages. And LG has info on his business life Edited 17 January , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, corisande said: I am certain that it is the same man, same three Christian names and same Service Record. It is covered in the press reports I would invite you to check on FmP or BNA. I was loathe to post the actual reports here ! I don’t doubt you, the only aspect that puzzled me was the suggestion from the chronology that he may have served in the RE as a WO after(?) serving two terms of imprisonment for larceny! Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted things and the imprisonment was afterwards as a rather sad ending to his working life. Edited 17 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: the only aspect that puzzled me was the suggestion from the chronology that he may have served in the RE as a WO after(?) serving two terms of imprisonment for larceny! My understanding is that he served in RE in WW1 , came out, failed in his businesses and then became a butler. Was jailed in 1924 when he stole from an employer, and in 1937 for thefts from cars I have not got round to seeing what he did in WW2 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, corisande said: My understanding is that he served in RE in WW1 , came out, failed in his businesses and then became a butler. Was jailed in 1924 when he stole from an employer, and in 1937 for thefts from cars I have not got round to seeing what he did in WW2 :-) Ah yes, I understand now, thank you. A sad tale, but a lot of veterans suffered and exhibited desperate behaviour during the 1930s ‘depression’ era, so I don’t think we should be that surprised. There but for the grace of God.... Edited 17 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 (edited) His wounding was reported in the Casualty List of 13/11/16 suggesting wounding some 4 weeks earlier. He was Company Sgt Major RE at the time, same rank as he was when his Italian Bronze Medal for Miltary Valour was gazetted LG 26/5/17. Edited 17 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 There's only one John William J. Snell born in England & Wales between 1885 and 1895, and that is the one identified in post #5 in Barnet, Herts Reg.Dist , in Sept quarter 1890. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 On 16/01/2020 at 21:53, Sarah walsh said: My mum was born Josie Glenda Snell, That's interesting: Births Sep 1940 (>99%) Snell Josie G Carlisle[Mother's maiden name] Bury[Reg Dist} 8c981 Bury? And I can't find any Snell=Calisle marriages. Nor can I find JWJ Snell in the 1939 Register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 9 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Nor can I find JWJ Snell in the 1939 Register. I was surprised as well that I had not been able to find him. I had thought that he had probably left for Australia before the register was drawn up, but Josie Snell's birth in Jul/Sep 1940 shows that he must have been around . It is possible that he was in prison when the Register was drawn up, but if he was , then it would have been for a further crime to the one I quoted above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Sarah walsh said: Hi Christine, hoping you get this message regarding our grandfather. Any information you have would be greatly appreciated as my mum is nearly 80 and is desperate to find out where he is buried x Sarah you have to send the message to Christine through her profile page. Click on her name in this thread and it will take you to her profile. Once the profile page is open there’s an envelope symbol at the top. Click on that and then you can send her your message. Edited 18 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 (edited) His paternity record is "interesting". Covering (at least) 1. Married Lottie Darkins in 1913 with children born 1913 (Ethel) and 1920 (Stella) 2. Children by (but probably did not marry) Louisa Roberts . The children from Chris Crowe's tree are Charles Ernest Grenadier Snell b1927 and Frank b 1930 3. Children by (but probably did not marry) Carlisle . Child Josie G Snell born 1940 (I wonder if the G is for Grenadier - I now see it is Glenda from a post above) Edited 18 January , 2020 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 6 minutes ago, corisande said: His paternity record is "interesting". Covering (at least) 1. Married Lottie Darkins in 1913 with children born 1913 (Ethel) and 1920 (Stella) 2. Children by (but probably did not marry) Louisa Roberts . The children from Chris Crowe's tree are Charles Ernest Grenadier Snell b1927 and Frank b 1930 3. Children by (but probably did not marry) Carlisle . Child Josie G Snell born 1940 (I wonder if the G is for Grenadier) He certainly seems to have been a character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 There is a Charlotte-perhaps Lottie-and Stella on 1939 register. Charlotte is a widow. Stella correct age https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=TNA%2FR39%2F0589%2F0589C%2F006&parentid=TNA%2FR39%2F0589%2F0589C%2F006%2F38 FMP George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 2 minutes ago, George Rayner said: There is a Charlotte-perhaps Lottie-and Stella on 1939 register. Charlotte is a widow. Stella correct age Nice lateral thinking with "Charlotte" :-) I think you are correct , she married him as "Lottie E" and Stella Olive was born 7 Mar 1920 in 1939 Reg and on Chris Crowes tree (which does not use the register, so is independent) Presumably either she had thrown him out, or more likely he had walked away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 And claimed to be a widow for 'social' appearance one would surmise...as we know he was still alive. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Nor can I find JWJ Snell in the 1939 Register. Servicemen were excluded; I note on the 1953 Passenger record his profession is 'Master at Arms'. So could he have been in the Navy in 1939 ? Edited 18 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 January , 2020 Share Posted 18 January , 2020 (edited) Coming back to his WW1 Service: His RE Service number looks to be issued c July 1915 and I suspect it was at this date Snell was trf'd from Grenadier Guards to RE. The RE were forming their Special Gas Companies at this time in France and I note on the BWM/VM medal Roll that there were a number of trfs from infantry regiments to the RE. A couple of near numbers with surviving service records (eg Shuckburgh, ex GG, 143025) show these men went to Special Companies (ie Gas). It would seem probable that Snell folowed a similar path; perhaps NCO's needed to staff up the new companies ? Perhaps @Terry_Reeves can help ? Charlie Edited 18 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 19 January , 2020 Share Posted 19 January , 2020 (edited) Charlie is correct in thinking he was with the Special Brigade. He would have transferred around March /April 1916 when the Special Companies were expanded into a Brigade size organisation. As has already been mentioned in Charlie’s post above, he would have been transferred to give experience to the newly formed battalions. I have extracted the all names from the war diaries but I am in India at the moment. I will check when I get back to see if he is mentioned. TR Edited 21 January , 2020 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 19 January , 2020 Share Posted 19 January , 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Terry_Reeves said: but I am in India at the moment Thanks for responding! Charlie Edited 19 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josieglenda1940 Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 10:07, corisande said: His paternity record is "interesting". Covering (at least) 1. Married Lottie Darkins in 1913 with children born 1913 (Ethel) and 1920 (Stella) 2. Children by (but probably did not marry) Louisa Roberts . The children from Chris Crowe's tree are Charles Ernest Grenadier Snell b1927 and Frank b 1930 3. Children by (but probably did not marry) Carlisle . Child Josie G Snell born 1940 (I wonder if the G is for Grenadier - I now see it is Glenda from a post above) I am Josie Glenda Snell dob 1940 my Mother's married name was Nichol née Carlisle my mother and father were never married Thankyou to everyone who have commented and photo of my Father and of his grave I do not any photos of him and did not know where he was buried I last saw my father when I was approx 9yrs old and lived with him beforehand then he was gone my Mother came for me and eventually told me he had gone to Australia he sent for me by letter to my Mother but she refused to let me go I was not allowed to use my name Snell by my Mother and she insisted I use her name of Nichol any further details to help you please contact me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 Hello Josie & welcome to the Forum I am very glad that we have been able to fill in a of of the details of your father I hope you have been able to contact Christine Crowe via Ancestry Your father was really a larger than life character and finding following the twists and turns of his life has been (for me anyway) quite fascinating. I suppose my conclusion was that he was high on charm and low on morals ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josieglenda1940 Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 12 minutes ago, corisande said: Hello Josie & welcome to the Forum I am very glad that we have been able to fill in a of of the details of your father I hope you have been able to contact Christine Crowe via Ancestry Your father was really a larger than life character and finding following the twists and turns of his life has been (for me anyway) quite fascinating. I suppose my conclusion was that he was high on charm and low on morals ! Thankyou so much for your reply he was a character and so full of charm I loved him and still do with all my heart he was an amazing father kind funny generous and taught me so much I lived with him in Rochford Essex in a shoe repair shop with accommodation above owned by an old lady Mrs Tichall she sold up moved to Cricklewood that's when my Father moved to Australia without my knowledge he left said will see you tomorrow I never saw him again I've trie over the years to trace him with no success I was talking to my daughter Sarah Walsh she googled his name and that was it I'm over this moon for his photo in uniform and the grave photo hopefully one day I'm going to visit his grave I want to know everything about him good and bad and more photos etc especially what happened to him in Australia sorry to waffle on but am so excited I've found him xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 The only other point I cn make is, as noted in an earlier post here. he left for Australia on RMS Oronsay in Jan 1952 , giving his address as 14 East St, Rochford. He appears to be travelling alone. I think to find out what happened to him in Australia, you will have to track down any Australian descendants . I cannot get ant references in Australian papers, which should mean that he was never charged with any crimes there They obviously had his medals, in as much as Karl Kaufman is probably the person that donated the medals to the Guards Museum And the Original Poster on this thread. Christine Crowe can be found elsewhere asking - her father and you are presumably half siblings i am trying to find what happened to my grandfather, his name was john william josiah snell, he was a grenadier guard, police sergeant and in the royal engineers. the last i know about him is that he had a bootmaking shop at 585 London Road, Westcliff on Sea, called Jack Snell and his logo was Late "The Kings Company" Grenadier Guards. Looking desperately as my dad never knew his father as he was abandoned in the workhouse at a young age and never knew his parents. He has since seen a photo of his mother but just wants to see a picture of his dad. he is 80 next birthday. hope someone out there can help me as we are a long way away in Australia He must have abandoned this familly in early 1930s Charles and Frank being born 1927 and 1930. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 (edited) Brilliant work by corisande and all the others who did the detective work on this thread. It will be fantastic if this forum brings these two ladies together. NB. I will be surprised if the City of London police records/museum do not also have a photograph of ex Detective Sergeant Snell. Edited 24 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josieglenda1940 Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 30 minutes ago, corisande said: The only other point I cn make is, as noted in an earlier post here. he left for Australia on RMS Oronsay in Jan 1952 , giving his address as 14 East St, Rochford. He appears to be travelling alone. I think to find out what happened to him in Australia, you will have to track down any Australian descendants . I cannot get ant references in Australian papers, which should mean that he was never charged with any crimes there They obviously had his medals, in as much as Karl Kaufman is probably the person that donated the medals to the Guards Museum And the Original Poster on this thread. Christine Crowe can be found elsewhere asking - her father and you are presumably half siblings i am trying to find what happened to my grandfather, his name was john william josiah snell, he was a grenadier guard, police sergeant and in the royal engineers. the last i know about him is that he had a bootmaking shop at 585 London Road, Westcliff on Sea, called Jack Snell and his logo was Late "The Kings Company" Grenadier Guards. Looking desperately as my dad never knew his father as he was abandoned in the workhouse at a young age and never knew his parents. He has since seen a photo of his mother but just wants to see a picture of his dad. he is 80 next birthday. hope someone out there can help me as we are a long way away in Australia He must have abandoned this familly in early 1930s Charles and Frank being born 1927 and 1930. That is so terribly sad for all his children I cannot understand how he could have done that it sounds so different to the man I knew although I guess he did the same to me I haven't contacted Christine yet I'm not sure how to do this my daughter Sarah is abroad on holiday will be back on Tuesday so she can show me how to do it You have given me so much information I can't believe at last after 70plus years I have his photo and know where he is buried my Mother destroyed all his photos xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josieglenda1940 Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said: Brilliant work by corisande and all the others who did the detective work on this thread. It will be fantastic if this forum brings these two ladies together. NB. I will be surprised if the City of London police records/museum do not also have a photograph of ex Detective Sergeant Snell. I will try to find this photo and would dearly love to hear from Christine she must be my Great Neice it breaks my heart to have missed all my siblings am so thankful for everyone's efforts bless you all xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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