Trebrys Posted 18 March , 2007 Share Posted 18 March , 2007 Caradog Owen Jones was a native of Nant Peris near Caernarfon who fought with the 3rd and 6th Tunnelling Coy in the Australian Army. I have found a letter of his written from France on September 1 1917 in fine literary Welsh and in which he quotes from the "Lays of Ancient Rome." He seems a learned man.......but he might have had a dark secret. A quick peek at his service records shows that he was punished at least twice for misdemeanours, including being drunk on active service and being troublesome at his billet. How was he punished? I don't quite understand the wording of the record. Were any others listed that I've missed? He saw out the war and was wounded in action, but am I being unfair in calling him what I did in the topic title and description? Any observations would be gratefully received. Trebrys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 18 March , 2007 Share Posted 18 March , 2007 Firstly it is a good idea to say which Owen Jones wiyh Caradoc in his name, there were two of them. Adding their service number is a good way to distinquish between them. Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 19 March , 2007 Share Posted 19 March , 2007 http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1 Secondly, there is nothing in his records to suggest a dark secret. His name was misspelt on the first attestation paper and corrected on the next. If you think getting crimed for AWOL and drunkenness twice, is bad, you should see some other records. Some read, AWOL, To field, Injured, AWOL, Drunk, To field, Injured, For the entire time they served. It seems one way of letting steam off after being in the trenches, was to go on a bender. I think some soldiers may have spent a fair part of their service broke, after forfeiting parts of their pay. To say he was troublesome man, is doing him an injustice unless you have a lot more evidence as to what else he got up to. If he was troublesome, then there were a lot of much more troublesome Aussies, -if you go by the service record alone. Field Punishment No 1 and Field Punishment No 2 for whatever length of time is set down by the inquiry , and usually involved forfeiture of pay. See here for explanation. http://www.lighthorse.org.au/forum/topic.a...erms=punishment Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebrys Posted 19 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2007 As ever, many thanks Kim! Sorry I thought I had made it clear by saying he was Caradog Owen Jones and not Owen Caradog Jones. One was a Caradog with an Owen in his name and the other an Owen with a Caradog in his name. When you live in a country with so many subtle changes in similar names I suppose it's much clearer for us here. I had three old uncles who were brothers....Owen Morgan Jones, William Morgan Jones, and......Morgan Morgan Jones - without forgetting neighbours Lloyd Lloyd Lloyd, William Williams and Robert Roberts! I won't tell you how many John Joneses I know! As you say rightly, I should have added the service number which was 4545. I know I'd have to find a way of letting off steam too if I'd experienced the horrors that these men had, so I suppose it's no wonder that old Caradog Owen let off some steam! Thanks again, Iwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 19 March , 2007 Share Posted 19 March , 2007 Have a look at some other records of Aussie soldiers and you will see that being crimed was part of their service, though not saying that it was across the board. Can't think of any in particular at the moment, but have seen some good ones. One thing I do remember is an officer saying, those who were troublesome in training or at rest, were often at their best in the front line. Jacka comes to mind. And both spellings are CaradoC not Caradog. Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 19 March , 2007 Share Posted 19 March , 2007 Kim/Iwan I notice that Caradog's name spelling was changed on his service papers to Caradoc, however the 1901 census appears to have him as Caradog O. Jones a 19 year old slate quarryman in Llanberis where he was born. Interestingly he became a clerk in Australia so maybe his emigration to Australia was his chance to get away from manual labour in his homeland. Ironic that then he had to return to Europe with a tunnelling company. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebrys Posted 19 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2007 The digitalised spelling of both do come up as 'Caradoc,' you are right. But if you look at how the man himself spelt it on his forms you will see it recorded in the proper and correct Welsh way with a 'g'. Caradog. The English brain can't always cope with Welsh words and often anglicise them to make it easier for them e.g. 'Carnarvon' and 'Conway' instead of the correct 'Caernarfon' and 'Conwy.' No doubt the recorder of the forms heard it with a 'c' and jotted it down as thus. It was ironic indeed to find himself tunnelling again, but there are many examples of Welshmen from non-mining and non-quarrying backgrounds being given such duties because it fitted in with everyone's stereotype of a Welshman. I'd be struggling with a pick and shovel as I'm a teacher! Who's Jacka, Kim? All the best, Iwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon6640 Posted 19 March , 2007 Share Posted 19 March , 2007 Who's Jacka, Kim? From the ever interesting Hellfire Corner Site: http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/jacka.htm Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebrys Posted 19 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2007 What a man! What a soldier! Thanks, Jon. From the ever interesting Hellfire Corner Site: http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/jacka.htm Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 19 March , 2007 Share Posted 19 March , 2007 The 3rd Tunnelling Company was made up of men who enlisted mainly from Western Australia & Tasmania and they were active around the Lens sector. Nearly all the burials in Hersin Communal Cemetery are of these men. The 6th Tunnelling Company never actively served in France but was composed of men from Western Australia. After reaching England the 6th Tunnelling Company were broken up and used to reinforce the 3rd Tunnelling Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebrys Posted 19 March , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2007 Hi Andrew, Useful and interesting stuff to add to my research - many thanks! Iwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 Iwan My PC has been bust for a month and I'm catching up on posts. You are probably aware that Caradoc ( with a C at the end) is commemorated on his parents grave at Nant Peris. His brother Hugh Henry Jones (Pte 2433 55th Bn,AIF died of cancer 13/11/17)is also commemorated on the gravestone. Let me know if you haven't got the gravestone details. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvis Posted 31 March , 2007 Share Posted 31 March , 2007 From the ever interesting Hellfire Corner Site: http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/jacka.htm Jon Amazing story, incredible man. Thanks for sharing this link Jon. Jarvis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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