UK War trench preserved as monument

[Roy Evans]

Apologies if this is old news, but I've just come across it.

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/We...025729500604E29

Roy

[Derek Robertson]

Roy,

We've had training trenches for years up here:

http://members.aol.com/stobsmilitary/Pages/Page11/page11.htm

[hillgorilla]

Hi,

Found the link to the site interesting, especially the bit about Loch Doon, have spent quite a bit of time walking and wild camping aroud there, and along the edge of the loch there is still quite a bit to see, including a bunker, and the track that the targets ran along. Strange to think that such a remote place as it is now, played an important part in the aerial history of the Great War.

Hillgorilla

[Borden Battery]

This website of a long-forgotten Canadian Expeditionary Force training base in western Canada still has the remnants of battalion-sized training trenches in what is now a communty cattle pasture. I visited the site a few years ago.

Camp Hughes Under Threat - Archaeological Protection Plan

Camp Hughes (formerly Camp Sewell, circa 1910) near Brandon, Manitoba (not to be confused with Camp Shilo) was utilized to train over 40,000 men for the CEF in the Great War. This 2004 document is a William Galbraith master's thesis [227 pages] from the University of Manitoba. It provides some excellent background, historic and modern photographs including aerial, maps and detailed discussions regarding the preservation of this unique historic Canadian military training base in western Manitoba. [A Broznitsky Recommendation][CEF Study Group - Feb 2006]

http://www.umanitoba.ca/institutes/natural...esis%202004.pdf

Borden Battery

[Tom Morgan]

Thanks for this Roy. Interesting info which I will be following up tomorrow.

Tom

[Jon6640]

Is it's location to remain secret for obvious reasons?

[Medic7922]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/6460007.stm

[mattina]

very interesting.

good to see that it's being kept as it was

Thank you

[Martin Brown]

This isn't the first trench proftected by scheduling. We have a number on the Defence Training Estate, including Penally, Otterburn, Barry Buddon and Salisbury Plain. In addition there are sets on Whiteleaf Hill and another set on Cannock Chase which may have been an instructional model due to it's odd scale.

The key point is that it's good to see English Heritage, Cadw and Historic Scotland recognising monuments of the Great War as archaeological monuments that tell stories of the past and which are worthy of protection.

[dycer]

Martin,

The Article states that the Cannock Chase Trench location will remain secret to prevent vandalism,etc.

Within the confines of the Defence Land you mention i.e. unexploded ammunition.Are these trenches kept from public viewing?

If so,in the educational context only,should they be?

George

[Martin Brown]

As I have said on another thread about practice trenches there is access to much MOD land, for instance the Beacon Hill system can be accessed by public footpath as can a set by Shipton Bellinger, both on Salisbury Plain. Otherwise we do guide groups that want to see the Plain.

I agree that there is educational value in these monuments and recently took the Young Archaeologists Club to see a set of ours.

Other sets, such as Whiteleaf Hill, Slonk Hill, Redmires are not on MOD land.

[dycer]

Martin,

Thanks for the reply I'll expand why I'm asking.

I visited the Gibraltar Museum recently, it's situated in the quaintly named "Bomb House Lane".

Archaeological investigatations have revealed that the Building started life as a Moorish Bath-House, then an arsenal and accomodation before currently housing the Museum.

As you tour the Museum you walk through the Bath-House.As an aside I'm not sure how clued up you are on Moorish Bath-Houses but I am sure the Curator would be glad of your advice on more informative signage and whether the protection currently in place for foot traffic is sufficient to preserve the remains

I appreciate there are sites like this in the UK e.g Roman Structures.

We often bemoan the fact that the Western Front Sites are being overvisited,often by school-parties and I therefore am wondering whether some of these practice trenches could be preserved but made accesible so that pressure is reduced on France and Belgium.I am not suggesting for a second that school-parties should not visit France but by visiting Sites in the UK for historical educational purposes may leave more time for the Language aspect in France

George

p.s. I am sure Gibraltar would be a Military Archaeologist's dream

[healdav]

p.s. I am sure Gibraltar would be a Military Archaeologist's dream

It is now, but when I lived there praactically nothing could be visited. It was still bristling with guns.

You even needed a pass to go up the roads above the town.

Come to think of it, I at eight had a pass to go into the dockyard (where my father worked).

I remember the museum well, they had an entire room devoted to a working model of a gallows!

[auchonvillerssomme]

I had a look at these practice trenches while visiting friends a while back, I beleive they are now part of a a golf course.

Mick

http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/d...ns-of-court.htm

[dycer]

It is now, but when I lived there praactically nothing could be visited. It was still bristling with guns.

You even needed a pass to go up the roads above the town.

Come to think of it, I at eight had a pass to go into the dockyard (where my father worked).

I remember the museum well, they had an entire room devoted to a working model of a gallows!

I'm afraid to say the Gallows have gone.

I felt old though.I was last there in the 70's and used the horse drawn taxis.The last surviving one(excluding horse ) is now a Museum piece and even the Staff could not remember them in use.

The Museum does have a "Gibraltar" Battle Honour Tape on display, taken from a German Prisoner in WW1.

George

[Martin Brown]

Sadly I haven't manged a Gibraltar trip yet but MOD is aware of its historic importance.

I quite agree about the value of training trenches as an educational resource, which is oddly what they were in the first place! With No Man's Land and Staffordshire County Council we are working to investigate the training camp site and its trenches so that they can be visited and understood and I think this may be the way forward in some areas.

I accept that these sites do not have the immediate emotional impact of the WF but they do allow consideration of the war and the terrain, as well as training and the home front.

Martin

[dycer]

Martin,

I am,of course,not suggesting that you or your Group should be responsible for the opening up and maintainng of these trenches for public access.As you imply this may fall to the Local Authority or even the Imperial War Museum,etc.

There is a lot of redevelopment taking place in Gibraltar.It is British in many ways,so hopefully has similar planning restrictions to the UK.

I would recommend an early trip though,just in case.

George

[trenchtrotter]

15 years or so ago I visited some cracking practice trenches at Clipston in Notts, a large training area. Anyone know if there still there?

TT

[Martin Brown]

15 years or so ago I visited some cracking practice trenches at Clipston in Notts, a large training area. Anyone know if there still there?

TT

Good question. I'm not even sure if we still have the training area. I'll check.

If any other chums have trained over them recently I'd be interested to know.

Martin

[Borderman]

Can’t say if they are still there but googled and found a website that says they can still be seen in an area called ‘Sherwood Pines’

The camp went in the early 20s.

Anyway here’s a link.

Clipstone

And heres a picture of the camp church

[trenchtrotter]

Thanks for the replies re Clipstone. The trenches were deep in woods and well worth the visit. If there is a pal in therlocality who fancies a Sunday stroll recceing the forest it could prove worthwhile.

Interesting images.

TT

[zippy.72]

Thanks for the replies re Clipstone. The trenches were deep in woods and well worth the visit. If there is a pal in therlocality who fancies a Sunday stroll recceing the forest it could prove worthwhile.

Interesting images.

TT

I have found evidence of trenches in the woods around Vicars water. They are still quite deep and I hope that they are not lost forever.

[Moonraker]

...the Beacon Hill system can be accessed by public footpath as can a set by Shipton Bellinger, both on Salisbury Plain.

Other sets, such as Whiteleaf Hill, Slonk Hill, Redmires are not on MOD land.

Martin: just checking that "by Shipton Bellinger" you mean those where Bedlam Buildings once were, south east of Tidworth?

For the sake of completeness, and cos I visited it on Friday, the trench system on Marlow Common, South Bucks, should also be mentioned. See

here

Very accessible, and no need to tramp miles from the car; in fact you can park it 50 yards away.

Moonraker