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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Young Pte. Alfred McDermott, Royal Scots


Mary Anne

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Hello all

I would appreciate some advice from all the sage folks on this board. I am trying to help a friend find out anything about the final resting place of this young lad, an uncle, and we are confused by the regimental and Battalion numbers referenced by (elderly) relatives (not to say the British Army!):

Pte Alfred McDermott

Killed in Action: "France & Flanders" on August 23, 1918 [so the family was told, long ago].

Alfred belonged to: one of the following (or all of them could be correct with re-numbering and all!) :--

Royal Scotland (Lothian Regiment) 9th Battalion (or in some papers the 2nd Battalion)

formerly known as 12048 Scotttish Rifles 9th Battalion

I am not sure what the number 12048 refers to - checking to see if it as regimental number, but I think not....

Anyhow, when I search the CWGC Website, I find:

Pte Alfred McDermott, Regimental No. 51414, 2nd Battalion, Royal Scots, who died on 23 August 1918 and is commemorated at Vis-en-Artois Memorial in France.

Do you think this is the young man we are looking for?

Any suggestions for other sources of information we could consult for further details of him? or is this a lost cause?

TIA

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Mary Anne

I would say the possiblity of this being your man are good. Have you downloaded his MIC ? National Archives

His number was 12048 with Scottish Rifles and then 51414 with Royal Scots which he must have been with at time of death.

One way of confirming this would be to post a request for someone going to Kew to see if his service reocords survived.

Good luck

Doris

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Mary Anne,

Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) records that 51414 Pte Alfred McDermott of 2nd Bn (it says here) Royal Scots was born and enlisted in Glasgow. Does this fit with what you know about him?

It also notes that he was formerly no. 12048 with the Scottish Rifles.

Adrian

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Wow, thank you so much Doris and Adrian.

Adrian - I am not sure where he enlisted, or where he was born, I will check with my friend. Is there any additional information in the entry in Soldiers Died in the Great War? and what is that, is it a book or an index? Can I get the whole citation somewhere?

And a question for all of you, again, who know more aobut the Scottish and British military than I....are the Scottish Rifles and the Royal Scots two different battalions? why would he enlist in one and then, later, in the other? Having once enlisted, would he not have been just tranferred form one to the other? or was he in the Scottish Rifles as a Cadet and then enlisted *for real* in the Royal Scots?

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Hi

SDGW is now consulted mostly as a CD but was originally a book. It keeps many of us entranced for many hours.

The Scottish Rifles are formally referred to as Cameronian (Scottish Rifles) but the either Cameronians or the bit in brackets is sometimes used alone. There may be those in the Forum who can tell you about when your man joined and even which Battalion, in which case you can track his movements. As Doris suggests the best idea is to get sight of his medal roll at Kew to give the details.

The 2nd Btn Royal Scots were part of 8th Brigade of 3rd Div. If you look on the mother site you can find where they were active. They seem to have had a major involvement in most key actions.

Hope this helps progress

David

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Scottsih National War memorial has him listed.

Surname McDERMOTT

Firstname Alfred

Service Number 51414

Date Death 23/08/1918

Decoration

Place of birth Glasgow

Other 2nd Bn. formerly 12048 Scot. Rif.

SNWM roll THE ROYAL SCOTS (LOTHIAN REGIMENT)

Rank Pte

Theatre of death F.& F.

He also has a will at the National Archive.

Reference SC70/8/1149/24 refers and confirm his details.

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Wow, thank you so much Doris and Adrian.

Adrian - I am not sure where he enlisted, or where he was born, I will check with my friend. Is there any additional information in the entry in Soldiers Died in the Great War? and what is that, is it a book or an index? Can I get the whole citation somewhere?

And a question for all of you, again, who know more aobut the Scottish and British military than I....are the Scottish Rifles and the Royal Scots two different battalions? why would he enlist in one and then, later, in the other? Having once enlisted, would he not have been just tranferred form one to the other? or was he in the Scottish Rifles as a Cadet and then enlisted *for real* in the Royal Scots?

Mary Anne,

If you look on the Main Site you will find all the Infantry Regiments listed.

The Royal Scots and Cameronians(Scottish Rifles) are different Regiments.

Possible explanations for his changing Regiment.He was wounded and on recovery was transferred to the Royal Scots,The Scottish Rifle Battalion was disbanded and he was transferred to the Royal Scots.

The Main Site may assist.

George

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The 2nd RS were in the sameDivision as 1st Gordons whose War Diary is online at

http://www.thegordonhighlanders.co.uk/Page...ary.htm#1918Jul

This gives some indication of where they were.

August 1918

Berles-

au-Bois

Ayette

20th Bn lay out in orchards all day, paraded ready to move off at 10 pm, proceeded to assembly

position behind Ayette. Bn at zero hour 4.50 am, moved forward through dense mist for a mile,

thereafter splitting into artillery formations. Difficulty in seeing more than 100 yards; Bn

reached most of Courcelles but Railway not taken.

21st Failure to take objectives, heavy casualties. Bn withdrawn after dark to Blue Line; rested all

day.

22nd Bn rested; Major Pearson took command; moved up after dark with remainder of Brigade for

assembly positions for attack on Gourniecourt next morning. Bn was to guard Right Flank of

attack by the other Bns of the Brigade as the taking of Gourniecourt above would make a

pronounced salient in our line. Enemy had ME in assembly position and this had to be dislodged

before the assembly.

23rd Attack began and the two right flank coys met some opposition on Railway Embankment, half way

to the objective. Considerable MG fire forced them to dig in on the flank thus saving a large

number of casualties. The 2nd Division went through at 11 am, relieved the pressure - at 4 pm

Bn moved forward to South East of Gourniecourt and dug in for night.

Ayette area

24th Bn rested all day, movements restricted because in view of the enemy at Bahagnies and Sapiqnies

about 1 mile in front. Bn later withdrawn at 8.30 pm to the Purple Line west of Douchy.

Douchy

25th Bn rested all day - heavy rain.

26th Fine day; Bn moved in the evening to trenches in front of Hamlincourt.

27th Enemy shelled intermittently.

28th Bn moved forward at night and relieved the 2nd Grenadiers in the front line SW of Ecoust.

29th Bn patrols out to keep in touch with enemy, one platoon of the left coy advanced too far and

was practically wiped out by MG fire from the flank. Bn co-operated with the 8th West Yorks

(62 Div), but the operation planned did not take place.

Mory

Ecoust

30th Bn advanced with the 2nd Suffolks who took Ecoust on our left, but because of a heavy attack

our left coy was left in the air and suffered heavy casualties. On the right the Bn reached

its objective with few casualties and dug in to consolidate the position. The Brigade was

relieved at night except the Bn and 1 coy of 8th KORL who came under the orders of the 9th

Brigade.

31st Brigade attacked on a 3 Bn front in the morning, Ecoust was retaken. Bn reached objective, dug

in; the adjutant Captain Gammell MC was killed.

The Regimental History gives:

Aye

Malcolm

post-129-1173891655.jpg

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Oh, my, thank you so much, all of you, for this!! This forum is a fount of knowledge! :) I will pass this information on to my friend, I am sure he will be delighted.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Details from 1896 births in District of Dennistoun in the County of Lanark (644/03 2523) Alfred McDermott born 3 December 1896 at 33 Brandon Street Glasgow. Father Jon McDermott (spirit salesman) Mother Janet McDermott ms ? (can't decipher) Married 4 Feb 1891 in Glasgow.

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