per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 April , 2007 Share Posted 9 April , 2007 A 10" belt was light; G3 an inter war battle cruiser design would have had 14" belt and 8" deck. Incomparable not only can be compaired but suffers in the comparison and she would probably not have survived a fleet action. Hood looked good, but was a waste of time, the concept of battlecruisers had been shown to be flawed. As for going to war with torpedo tubes! Another of Fisher's crackpot schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob H Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 My understanding is that Vanguard used the guns from Courageous and Glorious but in new design turrets. The turrets were from Courageous and Glorious, modernized with extra armour and increased elevation for the guns. The guns were taken from storage of relined stock and could have been used on any of the 15" gunned ships previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 A 10" belt was light; G3 an inter war battle cruiser design would have had 14" belt and 8" deck. Incomparable not only can be compaired but suffers in the comparison and she would probably not have survived a fleet action. Hood looked good, but was a waste of time, the concept of battlecruisers had been shown to be flawed. As for going to war with torpedo tubes! Another of Fisher's crackpot schemes. Agreed that 10" belt was too light. But there are quite a few who think Hood was just very unfortunate - Bismarck's shell may have found a weak path only 18" high at the range where she was hit. And I believe evidence dating from about 2000 shows that Rodney's claimed torpedo hit on Bismarck may not only have been genuine, but contributed to her sinking. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 9 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2008 This model of Graf Spee took 4 years to make. It`s powered and the man sits in. Note the number! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 9 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2008 And the builder:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 HMS Revenge. Photos here: http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/revenge.htm Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 But there are quite a few who think Hood was just very unfortunate - Bismarck's shell may have found a weak path only 18" high at the range where she was hit. And I believe evidence dating from about 2000 shows that Rodney's claimed torpedo hit on Bismarck may not only have been genuine, but contributed to her sinking. Just as some think that Queen Mary, Invincible, and Indefatigable were unfortunate. Was that specific torpedo hit any more decisive than Prince of Wales' shell strikes or any of the other torpedoes that struck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 Thanks Phil B, I admire the man's dedication, any idea of what he's doing for an encore? Ajax... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 9 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2008 Thanks Phil B, I admire the man's dedication, any idea of what he's doing for an encore? Ajax... Going to scuttle it, I imagine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHollinger Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 Is this the naval version of "Living History" reenactors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 9 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Going to scuttle it, I imagine! Good one Phil. I don't read the threads on ships very often, but I enjoyed this one. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 9 January , 2008 Share Posted 9 January , 2008 QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 9 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Going to scuttle it, I imagine! Has he heard someone's built a modal of the Ark Royal and she is on the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 12 January , 2008 Share Posted 12 January , 2008 Just as some think that Queen Mary, Invincible, and Indefatigable were unfortunate. Was that specific torpedo hit any more decisive than Prince of Wales' shell strikes or any of the other torpedoes that struck? Well, there was obviously something wrong with those ships... or perhaps it was the propellant handling techniques. As for the torpedo from Rodney, if it hit: there was a story from one of the expeditions to the wreck that something had torn either through or under the belt armour like a heavy torpedo hit. Rodney's torpedoes were enormous - 24.5" diameter and about 2 1/2 tons IIRC - although Dorsetshire's were no lightweights either. Rodney did claim one hit, which German survivors discounted. PoW's shell strike was important in forcing Bismarck to abandon the planned Rheinubung, not AFAIK in contributing to her sinking. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraltrader Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Whilst I appreciate that this thread is essentially about WW1 ships - I do like the look of some of the later Italian Battleships. Whilst they are undoubtably flawed ships especially in the areas of armour-plating, gun-control and radar they are beautiful to look at! astraltrader Exeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Let`s be seeing then then Exeter! We`re all experts on maritime pulchritude. Self appointed, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 I've always loved the painting 'Peaceful Anchorage' by the artist Robert Taylor since first seeing it some 6 or 7 years ago: These ships, although built for war, look serene riding at anchor with the white paint scheme showing off their lines to advantage. And the setting makes this Great War image seem another world from the mud and squalor of paintings of the Western Front. Taylor's painting depicts ships of the Imperial German East Asiatic Squadron at anchor in a Pacific Island bay just prior to the outbreak of hostilities in 1914. The ships are, left to right, light cruisers Nurnberg and Dresden, cruiser Gneisenau and von Spee's flagship Scharnhorst. ciao, GAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Welcome aboard, Astraltrader - I'm afraid our pal Phil seems to think you're a cruiser ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 the Imperial German East Asiatic Squadron at anchor in a Pacific Island bay just prior to the outbreak of hostilities in 1914. Possibly Ponape in the Caroline Islands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 QUOTE (Phil_B @ Feb 26 2008, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Possibly Ponape in the Caroline Islands? That's a possibility. The Military Gallery leaflet for the print of the painting doesn't specify the exact location, but it's got to be somewhere enroute between their pre-war base at Tsingtao in China which they left in August 1914 and their arrival off Coronel, Chile, where they encountered and saw off a British squadron on 1 November 1914. I don't know all the places they anchored at crossing the Pacific. Strange to think that just a couple of months after the peaceful scene depicted by Taylor that the Battle of the Falkland Islands on 9 December 1914 saw the Scharnhorst, together with Spee and all of his crew, at the bottom of the ocean, along with the Leipzig, Nurnberg and Gneisenau (with only the Dresden escaping to be scuttled off Chile four months later). The first and last wartime cruise of the the German East Asiatic Squadron was a short-lived one. ciao, GAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 SMS Derfflinger By Randall Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 26 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2008 And going down at Scapa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 26 February , 2008 Share Posted 26 February , 2008 Powerful, fast and well-handled ships they may have been, but if we're talking about appearance, I don't think the German BCs have it. Perhaps they survived in battle because it was difficult to tell which end was front . Without tall conning towers and compass platforms, they don't seem to have a decent superstructure, and any of the British dreadnoughts have a more lordly appearance. Regards, MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astraltrader Posted 14 March , 2008 Share Posted 14 March , 2008 Welcome aboard, Astraltrader - I'm afraid our pal Phil seems to think you're a cruiser ... I am not totally sure what your pal Phil means by "a cruiser" - but I have been called worse! Anyway - Here is an example of one of the beautiful Italian Battleships I was referring to: Andrea Doria. Although she was completed in 1916 she was completely modernised and rebuilt by the time of the Second world War - being one of the few major Italian Warships to survive, she went on to become a training ship and was not scrapped until 1957. astraltrader Exeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 15 March , 2008 Share Posted 15 March , 2008 They certainly made beautiful targets for Warspite et al! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 15 March , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2008 Andrea Doria was a WW1 design and shows it. I don`t think she could be described as beautiful in the modern sense, but perhaps through WW1 eyes.....? Is there such a thing as timeless beauty? (Apart from my wife, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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