PBI Posted 14 April , 2007 Share Posted 14 April , 2007 Keep us all Posted please Chris,i might try to arrange an earlier visit...hoping to visit Aubers ridge and Le Touret memorial as well sometime very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBryett Posted 14 April , 2007 Share Posted 14 April , 2007 Keep us all Posted please Chris,i might try to arrange an earlier visit...hoping to visit Aubers ridge and Le Touret memorial as well sometime very soon. No problem. I'll let you know Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat McLachlan Posted 8 June , 2007 Share Posted 8 June , 2007 Hi all, Just received this press release a few minutes ago. Looks like progress is being made after all... Minister Assisting the Minister for Defence Media Mail List ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MINASSIST 029/2007 Friday, 8 June 2007 SURVEY OF WORLD WAR ONE GRAVE SITE AT FROMELLES A non-invasive scientific survey of an alleged First World War burial site from the battle of Fromelles in northern France has uncovered evidence that Australian war dead had been buried there the Minister Assisting the Minister for Defence Bruce Billson said today. Mr Billson said a preliminary report from an expert scientific team revealed subsurface anomalies in the soil that coincide with war time aerial photos and confirm the presence of a series of pits. “The survey also found some compelling evidence that Australian war dead, possibly more than 160, were buried on the site after the battle by the Germans,” Mr Billson said. “The most dramatic evidence, two copper alloy amulets or medallions with inscriptions clearly identifying them as belonging to Australians, were located close to the two western-most pits and close to the light railway that war time photos show the Germans using to move the dead.” The presence of these objects is very significant because the Australians never operated in this area, so could only have come from prisoners or the dead in German hands. The survey has also cast doubt on the likelihood that the remains were recovered in post war battlefield clearance operations as the pattern and distribution of bullets, shrapnel and other debris of battle suggests the soil was undisturbed after the end of the war. “Although this is a significant outcome, I must stress that this report is the preliminary report based only on field observations,” said Mr Billson. “The final report, which will include the scientific evidence obtained from ground penetrating radar, gradiometer and resistivity techniques used on the site, is expected to provide additional evidence as to the actual presence of soldier’s remains in the pits.” “If the final report does confirm these initial findings, the Australian Government will seek the support of French authorities to evaluate the site and confirm, or otherwise, our findings. It is hoped that this evaluation might be concluded by Christmas. "The evidence gathered so appears strengthen the case to formally approach the French authorities about excavating the site for further analysis, however, that decision would rest with the French, whose cooperation to date has been commendable and greatly appreciated." Mr Billson also commended the work of the group of private citizens, the Friends of the Fifteenth Brigade Association, from Melbourne and their spokesman and chief advocate, Mr Lambis Englezos. “The accurate and detailed research undertaken by the group was instrumental in the decision by Army to undertake this survey and Mr Englezos is to be congratulated for his work,” Mr Billson said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bain Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 Hi Pals, An article in today's (9th June) Glasgow Herald is entitled "Largest mass grave found on Great War battlefield where Hitler fought". Dr Tony Pollard of the University of Glasgow has located the mass grave of at least 250 British soldiers along with some 150 Australians who were killed at the Battle of Fromelles 1916. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 So we go from "possibly more than 160" to "at least 250 British soldiers along with some 150 Australians". Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 Interesting indeed. But I think we should be questioning the accuracy of the reporting rather than the results of the survey. I think it's safe to say that evidence has been found to suggest that men are buried on this spot. It's just a matter of exactly how many and who they are that remains to be exactly discovered. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 About time some holes were dug. The point about grave robbery well made on the other thread so care needs to be taken not to do the donkey work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bain Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 Hello Pals, I tried to get a link to the Herald's website, but the article isn't quoted, so here's the transcript - the headline is the same as the previous post. A Scots archaelologist has unearthed evidence of what is believed to be the largest mass grave of its kind found in modern times. The burial site is at the battlefield where Corporal Adolf Hitler was among those who fought during the First World War. The bodies of more than 250 "Tommies" are thought to lie in the forgotten tomb at Fromelles, northern France, together with around 150 Australians - making it the largest mass grave not connected with genocide. Announcing the find yesterday, Dr Tony Pollard, director of Glasgow University's Centre for Battlefield Archaeology, said it was "of massive historical importance". Dr Pollard's team were commissioned by the Australian government to investigate the likelihood a mass grave existed at Fromelles and more particularly whether there were dead Australian troops there. Around 5500 Australian soldiers were killed or wounded in 1916 at the Battle of Fromelles, which was staged in an attempt to divert German troops away from the Battle of the Somme. Around 1500 British soldiers were also killed or injured, a figure which was overshadowed at the time by the enormous loss of life at the Somme. Dr Pollard hopes the discovery of the grave will focus new interest on the Fromelles engagement. He said " I am very keen we get across in the UK the fact that British soldiers were involved in this battle. The Australian media only ever mentions the Australian troops, which is understandable, but there is a kind of invisibility of the British. The important thing to note is there are likely to be more British dead in the pits than Australian. We think at least 250 of the 400 bodies are British. One of the rewards of this project will be to rekindle the memories of these men. Dr Pollard and his team spent two weeks surveying the site, using geophysics, radar, topographic surveys and metal detectors. The Battle of Fromelles is described at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra as "the worst 24 hours in Australia's entire history". German records state an order was given to dig a pit for 400 bodies at the site after the battle. It is believed Fromelles was one of the First World War battles in which future Nazi leader, Adolf Hitler, then a Corporal, faced Allied troops. Dr Pollard said" Hitler was in the 6th Bavarian Reserve Regiment that took part in the battle. He was 27 and was acting as a runner in the battle. I'm not at all suggesting he was involved with the burial of these men but he certainly took part in the battle. The next stage is to conduct a small scale excavation later this year or early next year". Please excuse any typos Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 9 June , 2007 Share Posted 9 June , 2007 Given that this survey was done over a fairly extended period by a professional team , it would seem that there must be substance in the report. I assume the same Glasgow team will undertake the excavation work? Not sure how the good doctor establishes the likely proportions of the British and Australian dead although I suppose he is right to point out that both nationalities will be represented. Has this work been instituted solely at the behest of the Australian Govt or is the CWGC involved as well? If several hundred sets of remains are found, it would be best to re-inter them together but has any cemetery that sort of space available? Surely it would not be acceptable to split them up but we don't do ossuaries either. Head scratching time? It will certainly be good news if Fromelles is given some publicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 10 June , 2007 Share Posted 10 June , 2007 Whilst I hope that a great many can be identified, if not, should VC Corner Cemetery be used ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 10 June , 2007 Share Posted 10 June , 2007 Yes, but VC Corner is currently all Australian. Is there room at Le Trou Aid Post Cem which is already British & Commonwealth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snavek Posted 26 June , 2007 Share Posted 26 June , 2007 There was an article in the Eastern Daily Press about this yesterday, but I wont put in the full report as it may have already been covered. It seems a local man from East Harling, running a company called Geofizz, was part of the team, they scanned and built a 3D image of the whole area. He's quoted as saying....The Battle of Fromelles took place about a mile away from the burial site...the Germans collected the bodies of over 300 British and possibly up to 160 Australians and brought them to the site on railway tracks in hand push carts....where the bodies were unloaded we uncovered two Australian medallions and other personal items such as buttons....the team plans to conduct a smallscale excavation later this year or early next year. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Article in todays 'paper' http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...797-662,00.html Kind regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 29 April , 2008 Share Posted 29 April , 2008 There is a little television news update on this story via this link: http://www.scoop.co.nz/multimedia/tv/international/7359.html Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDW Posted 30 April , 2008 Share Posted 30 April , 2008 Mel I was there while Lambis was doing this story with the Channel Nine crew a week ago. I heard elsewhere the dig was delayed a month on account of the sodden ground. I walked over the site and it seems now to be firm and dry. Peter Article in todays 'paper' http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...797-662,00.html Kind regards, Marco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 30 April , 2008 Share Posted 30 April , 2008 Peter Was that you jumping up and down in the background? I understand that there was quite a lot of fur flying about the contract for the excavation being awarded to the Glagow unit. Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDW Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Mel I dont know the full story but I had heard there was going to be a fuss about the possible grave site so wanted to see the site while I was in the vicinity. I just happened to roll up at the time of the filming- I think you can just see my stomach protruding onto the screen from the left at one point. Afterwards I had a long chat to Lambis and got his side of the story. Peter Peter Was that you jumping up and down in the background? I understand that there was quite a lot of fur flying about the contract for the excavation being awarded to the Glagow unit. Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmen1916 Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Just read this (very long) post for the first time, absolutely fascinating read, will follow this with great interest. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Peter There is a flavour of the behind the scenes disputes discussed on this thread: http://ww2chat.com/forums/barracks/1713-au...esearchers.html Reards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 And in case the objective is lost sight off, here is a sobering reminder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Banning Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Interesting photo Mel. Can I ask where you got it from? The caption says 'English' dead from a German gas attack on 19.7.16 at Fromelles and also says the 'English' later admitted to 40,000 dead and wounded. To say the caption is misleading would be an understatement! Many thanks Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Jeremy It was posted on another forum and is aparently from Der Weltkrieg 1914-1918 in seiner rauhen Wirklichkeit . Ii also noticed the wild inaccuracy of the caption even though there is nothing to indicate that this is not Fromelles. regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmen1916 Posted 1 May , 2008 Share Posted 1 May , 2008 Thanks Mel for the background. Hope this grave stays safe in the mean time, would they use DNA here ? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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