Broznitsky Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Am I correct in thinking that the unit enscribed on the edge of the BWM and Victory medals indicate the unit that the man first went overseas with? If I am correct, was this just a CEF convention, or did the BEF/AIF and other Imperial forces follow it? Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 This is also true of Victory and British War medals issued in the UK. In addition the rank on the BWM and Victory is the highest rank held by the man in a theater/theatre of war. Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Hi Peter, For the CEF this can't be the case, unless the soldier was in one of the battalions that went to the front. My understanding, for CEF medal naming, is that the active service unit in which the soldier served was the unit which was engraved on the medals. For example if a fellow enlisted in the 162nd, and went overseas, was posted to say the 8 Central Ontario Reserve battalion and subsequently was posted to the 4th Bn CEF, his medals would be named to the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooter Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 How does the 1914-15 Star fit in with this? My grandfathers Star is stamped 'Bmbr 1404 John Hunt RFA', whilst his Victory Medal reads 'Cpl 1404 John Hunt RA', and by the end of the War his rank was Farrier-Sergeant. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Bill, I'm not sure if this was always the case at least as far as the CMGC goes. I can only speak from one family instance but my Great Uncle enlisted in the 113th was transferred to the 16th CEF in France than transferred to the CMGC in May 1918 in which he served until the end of the war. His BWM/Victory read 16 Canadian Infantry. This may be due to the Corps affiliation?? Guessing there. Chris H, Although I can't explain the reduction in rank on the BWM/Victory the 1914 and 1914-15 stars were authorised earlier than the BWM/Victory so quite often you get a Pte. Star then an NCO rank on the BWM/Victory. Is it possible he served into the early 20's and achieved his Sergeant rank after the issuance of the BWM/Victory? Again Guessing. Take care, Neil Speculating in New Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 I have a pair to 138348 Pte.A.S.Sewell, Can Pnr Bn. Sewell enlisted in the 75th Bn. but in England transferred to the 3rd Pioneer Bn., and went to France on 16 June,1916. In May,1917 he transferred back to the 75th Bn., and on 9 June of that year was wounded in a trench raid, losing his right leg. So here is a case of the medals not being named to his original unit, but to the unit with which he crossed the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 9 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2003 I should clarify that by "overseas" I mean France & Flanders (or elsewhere). My g'dad's medals are enscribed Pioneers, which is the unit he went to France with. He subsequently was transferred to 29th Btn and finished with CFC. This "overseas" would fit with Neil's scenario and Terry's "crossing the channel." Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooter Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Neil, Thanks for the insight. He was demobbed in 1919 - I don't have an exact date as yet, but my father was born in 1919, in fact it's his birthday today cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 9 December , 2003 Share Posted 9 December , 2003 Peter: All the research I have done on CEF medals agree with the excellent "crossed the channel" reference. In the case of the 3rd pioneer Bn, as you know, the engraving reads Can Pnr Bn, without the Bn number, and this is the way the National Archives lists it. I will check this for the 67th Bn, which also became a Pioneer Bn. As well, if the soldier remained in England, the engraving indicates the unit he left Canada in. EG - CFC. Regards Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 10 December , 2003 Share Posted 10 December , 2003 The late Alec A. Purvis in the Journal of the Orders and Medals Society, Vol. 15, No. 4 (Winter 1976), page 210 indicates that the following note was attached to the receipt form that was to be signed by recipients of the WWI Victory Medal and British War Medal: "To avoid unnecssary correspondence, kindly note that the Regtl. particulars inscribed on the British War & Victory Medals are those held on first disembarkation in a theatre of war. The rank is the highest attained, PROVIDED IT WAS HELD IN A THEATRE OF WAR OR OVERSEAS PRIOR TO 11.11.18. Appointments such as L/Sgts., L/Cpl., etc., are not inscribed on Medals. SPECIAL NOTE TO THOSE WHO SERVED IN RIFLE REGTS. "Rifleman is not inscribed on War Medals, "Pte." being the correct designation of this rank." Regards. Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Alexander Posted 10 December , 2003 Share Posted 10 December , 2003 A quick comment. Canadian engravers apparently didn't recieve this direction. I have medals engraved L/Cpl and I have seen a A/L/Cpl. (Acting Lance Corporal? begs some sort of description as Lance was acting, so acting acting???) In reference to the direction on the ranks, no appointments would be inscribed? Eg RSM or QMS is an appointment, not a rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 15 December , 2003 Share Posted 15 December , 2003 I have a 1914 star inscribed to a L/Cpl and have owned at least one 1914/15 star inscribed to a L/Cpl as well. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 15 December , 2003 Share Posted 15 December , 2003 I should add that I have two other pairs to pioneer battalions which are actually named to their numbered units: 1, 431185 Pte.R.Carden, 48-Can:Inf 2. 718371 Pte.J.G.Johnson,107-Can:Inf (DOW 15 Aug.,1917) Both of these battalions served as pioneer units in France. Why they are named as they are while the pair to Sewell discussed earlier is simply named Can.Pnr.Bn. I don't know. The 67th, 123rd, and 124th Bns also, I think, served as pioneers. I held off answering this as I was bidding on the 107th Bn pair on ebay. Just got the results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 15 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2003 Odd, Terry, as 48th never made it to France as a unit; they all landed as 3rd Pioneers. Perhaps ordering Carden's service record will shed some light. Just to add about Sewell and the 75th; this unit had supplied a large draft to 3rd Pioneers, and when 3rd was broken up many of the 75th men were returned to their original unit. Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 15 December , 2003 Share Posted 15 December , 2003 Hi Peter, I have Carden's file. He enlisted in June,1915; embarked for France 9 March,1916; attached to 3rd Tunneling Coy 6 May,1917; SOS to 7th Bn 4 June,1917;wounded 7 June,1917 Messines ; to UK 12 June,1917 to 20 Mar.,1918; discharged 22 Apr.,1918. Throughout his files the terms 48th Bn and 3rd Pioneer Bn are interchagable. For example his will entry is: Pte. Robert Carden, 3rd Canadian Pioneer Bn.,48th Canadians. From my own research all five units converted to pioneer battalions can be found with the medals named to them as infantry battalions. That is 48th, 67th, 107th,123rd, and 124th Can.Inf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted 16 December , 2003 Share Posted 16 December , 2003 Gt-Uncle's trio show at least one of them inscribed "L/Cpl". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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