Winter

[johnreed]

This is a bad case of Trench Foot not for the squemish

[Ste]

To be cold is one thing, but to be wet and cold is much worse. I really think that officers were in a position to alieviate the suffering of their men by insisting upon proper anti-trench foot procedures and keeping them working to improve their positions. Besides the warming effects of work, any alleviation of the drainage problems would pay dividends.

S

[Somme1916]

I really think that officers were in a position to alieviate the suffering of their men by insisting upon proper anti-trench foot procedures

Ste,

Officers at what level?

The platoon & company level officers were right down in there with their men. They could only do so much. If they didn't have gum boots, which we're not issued in trench stores unit late in the war (1917 I think) they couldn't keep the water out. Coating their feet in whale oil would only protect their feet to some degree. Even if they changed socks the moment they put their feet back into the cold mud/water they were instantly wet and cold again. The whale oil did help but if combat or work parties prevented breaks then no oil got applied.

The battalion level officers were only slightly better off as they were normally several hundred yards further back and Brigade was back further still. Yes the lives of the officers, NCOs and soldiers at Div & higher levels were better.

I hope I don't offend but sometimes its too easy to blame the leadership when it wasn't entirely their fault.

Cheers,

Jon

[Somme1916]

keeping them working to improve their positions. Besides the warming effects of work, any alleviation of the drainage problems would pay dividends.

S

S,

I hope I do not sound as if I'm talking down to you and if I do I apologies.

Terrain and combat conditions dictated what could and couldn't be done.

In Flanders for example the drainage system was totally blasted to pieces. The streams & canals were filled with debris and silt, effectively blocking normal water drainage. Further more the Belgians flooded a very large section of the coastal area to prevent German attacks and by so doing reduced further still the places the water could go.

Adding to this problem the Germans were normally on higher ground and would often pump the water out of their trenches and into no mans land. Subsequently this water too would flow into the allied trenches that were usually on the lower ground.

Many efforts were made to keep the trenches dry. They often dug the trenches much deeper and placed inverted A frames into them. On to this they placed walkways of duckboard. This in affect this placed the men’s feet a few feet above the bottom of the trench and a few inches, hopefully, above the water/mud level. Pumps were also installed with long hoses in an effort to get/keep the water out but these often clogged or broke down and the water poured in once more.

Remember too that men can only do so much against the elements, shellfire, operational demands and fatigue. Once the limits of human and operational endurance were reached they were reached and nothing else could be done. The leadership understood this, to some degree, and used the trench rotation system to help keep their troops as combat ready as possible.

By far not perfect but they really did the best they could given the technology, terrain and the combat conditions.

All the best,

Jon

[ianw]

I think Tim makes a very good point about the relative closeness of trench conditions with the normal day to day lives of many of the men. I remember reading an itinerant jobbing farm labourer recalling that conditions at the Front were very similar to those of his normal life except that he was better and more regularly fed and paid.

As has been said they were a different breed and by and large young and fit. Older frontline officers seem to struggle health wise and they perhaps approximate to most of us.

[Frank_East]

One of the more effective upper body garments against the elements was the sleeveless brown leather jerkin( now body warmers.)

Jerkins were ideal for working out in the cold weather where the hands had to be reasonably free for work.They were issued to RAF groundcrew in my day and were a boon to anyone working out in the bitter cold of an airfield in the depth of winter.

Jerkins were issued wholesale to elements of the British Army in the European area during the Second World War as evident in many photographs.I do remember seeing photographs of British Army units in the Great War wearing jerkins,I think they were artilliery units.

They still seem to be very popular with civilian outside teams.A few winters ago a French breakdown contractor came to my aid and appeared to be wearing a British Army jerkin, no doubt one that had been "liberated" all those years before.I should have had a peep at the label inside the jerkin. (This owner,a little fella, had the skills of a tank recovery unit member).

Regarding socks and care of the feet, the Russian Army seem to still have faith with the extensive length of muslin or similar cloth material that is swathed carefully round the feet and above the ankle.I saw this illustrated in a documentary on new intakes into their army.Obviously tried and tested in the past to meet the most severe of weather by creating air voids to minimise heat transfer from the foot.Water ingress,well that would be a problem to solve with the boot specification.

On the face of it it is an advantage to follow the design of winter clothing from those who experience it by their geographical location.After all both Napoleon and Hitler found out to their cost that General Winter was not entirely neutral.

Regards

Frank East

[michaeldr]

I do remember seeing photographs of British Army units in the Great War wearing jerkins

Frank,

I can personally vouch for the protection offered by leather against the cold of a north European winter. In my experience its particularly effective in a wind; the wind simply does not get through leather.

On 30 September 1916 Monash wrote a long letter home describing in great detail the King's review of his division. On three or more occasions during the day the King asked Monash about the winter clothing provided for his men, reminding the Australian general how cold it was in France in winter.

A couple of weeks later Monash wrote home again:

"12 October 1916

I have just had a visit from Lieutenant-General Sir John Cowan, a member of the Army Council and quartermaster- general of the whole army. The King insisted on his coming to see me to make sure I had all the warm clothing I wanted. As a result I have got him to promise me a special issue of 20,000 leather vests."

Regards

Michael D.R.

[christine liava'a]

What about sheepskin or goatskin jackets, with the wool on?

I'm sure I have seen a photo of aircrew wearing these,

and every soldier who left Fiji was supplied with one by the ladies of the Fiji Red cross. (I don't know where they got them- there are no sheep in Fiji to my knowledge!)

[Ste]

I hope I do not sound as if I'm talking down to you and if I do I apologies.

Terrain and combat conditions dictated what could and couldn't be done.

All the best,

Jon

Hi Jon,

no, you're not offending me, nor talking down to me.

...but I am aware of the points you make, Flanders water table included. My point is that as so many of the variables were given - rotten drainage, exhaustion, Germans on higher ground - those that did vary - quality of officers included - could make a difference to welfare.

A good, conscientious, sypathetic and firm subaltern could make some difference at some times by maintaing morale and making sure the men took any opportunity - no matter how rare - to dry their feet.

I am not blaming the leadership, I'm arguing subalterns could make a difference.

Cheers,

S