QUEENS ROYAL WEST SURREYS

[bobbyjoehill]

I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get information of the 1st Queens movements and actions in the first few weeks of the war as im trying to track down as much information for the chap below.

[Guest]

I am researching the Royal West Surrey's during WW1 and collect medals to the Regiment for this period.

I am currently creating a database of Queen's Regt DCM's, MM's, MSM's, MID, QSA, IGS 95, 14 Star, 15 Star, IGS NWF 1919 & Waziristan. I'm up to 12,000 approx names so far (i've still got a long way to go!)

I'm always interested in photographs etc

Cheers

Neil

Hi Neil,

I am researching my great grandfather who was also in the West Surrey Regiment.

His name was Edgar Matthews. He was listed in 1901 Census as being at Maidstone Barracks and being 19 (he lied about his age and was actually only 17). He enlisted when he was 14.

He was at Kingston Barracks in February 1914 (I know that because he registered my grandfathers birth there). He was a drummer. Would you be able to tell me anything about where he fought and what his job as a drummer would entail. He was also a father again in 1916 and 1917 so he couldnt have gone too far away! He survived the war and died in 1952. I have a photo of him after the war when he was older. I will be going to the TNA at a future date to try and find his army record. Do you have any advice at all.

Thanking you in advance.

[Ken Lees]

Neil,

Are you still collecting info on the Queens?

I have an MSM, LSGC group to a man who served in the 2nd Bn. and subsequently transferred to the King's Liverpool Regt.

I can send you what I know about him, if it would be of use.

Ken

[David Hoile]

Hi Neil, any advice for a novice? I've just begun to research Charles F Hoile, who served in 22 (County of London) Battalion London Regiment (The Queens), (Royal West Surrey Regiment); regimental numbers 6390/683267. I've looked at his medal card etc but am still none the wiser as to when he may have joined and where he may have served. Any guidance? Best wishes, David

[brendanwyatt]

I am researching the Royal West Surrey's during WW1 and collect medals to the Regiment for this period.

I am currently creating a database of Queen's Regt DCM's, MM's, MSM's, MID, QSA, IGS 95, 14 Star, 15 Star, IGS NWF 1919 & Waziristan. I'm up to 12,000 approx names so far (i've still got a long way to go!)

I'm always interested in photographs etc

Cheers

Neil

Neil,

My grandfather's two WWI medals have Queen's 21560 on them and I have his medal card which shows him having served in the Suffolk Regiment and the Queens Regiment. His name was Charles William Brelaz Wyatt. He lived in Hove in Sussex but I have no information about his war service or when he joined the Queens. Have you come across any information on him?

Regards,

Brendan

[hdl4]

I'm in the early stages of researching my Great Uncle: Bertram Francis Lewis. He started his service with the 10th (Service) Battalion of the Queens Royal West Surrey Regiment - service number G/9707 and died of his woulds on 4th October 1918. However, by then he was with the 10th Battalion Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) with service nos 36374 (based on his medal index card). He is buried in Mount Huon military cemetery in Le Treport, France.

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of him or medals.

If anyone has any info on when he might have transferred from one regiment to the other I'd be very grateful (nothing on the MIC)

(I've noted the suggestion about the Surrey History Centre. I've yet to go to the National Archive to see if they have his service records - there is nothing on Ancestry though.)

Many thanks

Helen

[researchingreg]

I am researching the Queens RWS as I am looking for information on Pte William Donald Wareham (who was a bugler/drummer) born 25 May 1900 and I think was in 2/4 Btn as I have a photo of him dated 15 May 1919 and a company of the 2/4 Btn was billeted at a factory in Blissenbach at that time - see the attached content. I do not have his service record or service number and I have not found him in MIC's on Ancestry. He may not have any medals. Does anybody have any other suggestions to find information?

The 2/4 Btn were in the 123rd Infantry Brigade in the London Division of the BAOR from March to October 1919

http://www.queensroy...s_1919_05.shtml

[John Orchard]

Question - why are the Royal West Surreys called the Queens and why are they a fairly senior regiment given the position of the missing panels at Tyne Cot?

I have scanned through this list and no-one seems to have replied directly to this question, so acknowledging my novice status here on the list, I am nonetheless a fully qualified and paid up historian. The seniority of the regiment is simply because of their antiquity and because of the early numbering sequences allotted during the mid-eighteenth century.

The history of the regiment, and its battle honours, show their presence in Tangiers, in the war of the Spanish Succession, in the Napoleonic wars and almost everything since! They were first raised in October 1661 as the Earl of Peterborough's Regiment of Foot, which was almost immediately posted to garrison the port of Tangiers, which had come to the English crown as part of the dowry of Catherine of Braganza when she married Charles II. Their connection with West Surrey dates to the same time, since Peterborough raised the regiment in Putney, which was then in Surrey.

It had many title changes, but they reflected the theme: 1685 Dowager Queen's regt. of Foot (the Queen had been widowed); 1703 (Under Queen Anne) The Queen's Royal regiment of Foot; In 1713 the regiment was renamed for the then Princess of Wales, Caroline of Ansbach, as The Princess of Wales' Own regiment of Foot, and it changed again when her husband became George II in 1727, to The Queen's Own Regiment of Foot. A Royal Warrant of 1751 renamed it 2nd (The Queen's Royal) Regiment of Foot.

In 1881 the Childers' reforms of the British Army brought in the idea of regiments being affiliated to counties and thereby providing recruiting grounds; the regiment became The Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment. This was revised again in 1921 and it was then titled The Queen's Royal Regiment (West Surrey).

[Clarek851]

Hi was hoping for some help please.

I am researching and trying to build a picture up of my great uncle.

He was in 2nd bn of The Queens (RWS) regiment.

His name is Thomas Henry Keating he was a lance corporal who was killed on the 16th November 1914 during the battle at Ypres.

That is all I know, I don't have a photo, any info on his career, how he died, if he was married.

I have found out he is buried in Poperinge and plan to visit next November.

If anyone can help it'll be much appreciated thank you.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Long shot but do you have any photos of these men that service with the Camel Corps?

Bell Henry Ingram 2/Lt CTC Ex RQMS The Queen's West Surrey Regt (186) and RASC
Brazier James 50997 A/L/Cpl ICC? 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3212) and Hussars
Champion Oliver James 2363 Pte 5Co Ex 2/4Bn The Queen's West Surrey Regt rtn (T/20643) buried Gaza War Cemetery Palestine DoD 12-8-17
Clemens Walter W. 50995 A/Sgt ICC? 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2823) and Hussars
Cooper Bertie G. 50998 Pte ICC? 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3305) and Hussars
Cooper Frederick W 309066 Pte 9Co Ex Surrey Yeo (1420) and (45050) (300380)? WIA 27-3-18
Davies William Thomas Lt 10Co att 2Bn HQ 3-18 rtn 10Co MC Ex Sgt Shropshire Yeo (1374) and Lt The Queen's West Surrey Regt to Kings Shropshire Light Infantry
Fairlie Percy 50999 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex 2Bn The Queen's West Surrey Regt (46383) to Hussars
Hillier Archibald R. 51001 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3172) and Hussars
Hogsden Benjamin J 4024 Pte 5Co 5-16 WIA L/arm Ex 2/4 The Queen's Royal West Surrey Regt (T201779) WIA 27-3-17
Holland George H. 51013 Pte 5Co Ex 2/4 The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2796) Queen's Regt (2776) and Hussars WIA 19-4-17
Humphrey Arthur 51002 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (1967) and Hussars
Jackson Thomas 51003 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3918) and Hussars
Jones Frederick H. 50928 Cpl 9Co Ex Surrey Yeo (1411) and Hussars
Knight George 51004 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2869) and Hussars
Leonard Michael J. 51005 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (4466) and Hussars
Loasby Frederick 51012 Pte ICC? 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3032) and Hussars to RASC (EMT/57185)
Molyneux William E. 50996 L/Cpl 5Co Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3305) and Hussars
Painter William G. 51006 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (4485) and Hussars
Powell CF Lt 10Co ICC Ex East Surrey Regt
Rimanogzy Charles 51008 Pte ICC? 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2150) and Hussars
Sheppard David W 51009 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (3389) and Hussars
Sheppard Oliver 51007 Pte ICC Ex East Surrey Regt (G3/9375) and Hussars
Smith Harold J 51204 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The 2/4 Queen's West Surrey Regt (4500) and Hussars
Streeter Sidney Henry Lt 5Co 5-16 to 10Co 4-18 to T/Capt Adjt CTU MID to UK leave 10-18 Ex Sgt 2/4 The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2678) prom 2/Lt to Capt
White Charles S. 51011 Pte ICC 5Co? Ex The Queen's West Surrey Regt (2086) and Hussars

Cheers

S.B

[gmslewis]

Clarek851,

Have a look at this website, it has the Queens War Diaries for the Great War on it and will hopefully give you a clearer idea of what your great uncle was up to in 1914:

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu1.aspx?li=1

My great grandad, John Dunk, was with the 2nd Queens at the same time but made it through the war in more or less one piece but was wounded twice (that I know of...).

I do know that the battalion were in Bermuda from 1911-4 and were in South Africa when war was declared but I don't know when Thomas Keating joined up. Have a look at this website for more info:

http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/time_line/the_queens/1909_1914.shtml

I've looked into the 2/Queens at the First Battle of Ypres a little bit. They landed at Zeebrugge on 6th-7th October and spent most of their time moving about for the next two weeks going to Bruges, Ostend, Ghent and then Ypres but even then were very mobile. On arrival in Ypres, at the train station, an enemy aeroplane flew overhead and some of the men of the battalion started shooting at it and they brought it down. A cavalry patrol recovered the pilot and plane three miles away.

They took part in heavy fighting in the Zonnebeeke/Gheluveldt area from 20th October and the Brigade (22nd Brigade) suffered so many casualties that the four battalions in it were merged into two. They were to go into reserve in the first week of November but were required to help the 4th Guards Brigade at a place called Zillebeeke on the 7th November.

They left the Ypres area around 9th of November to go into trenches at La Boutillerie (near Fleurbaix in France I think?). I think it likely that your great uncle was wounded in one of the battles in late October/Early November as the diary entry for the 16th November mentions no casualties and I think Poperinghe was a centre for casualty clearing stations at this time.

Hope that helps,

Gareth

[Clarek851]

Gareth, thank you so much, this gives me lots of information and certainly lots more information to study, saddens me to think he was injured and may have suffered over a period of time. I am tracing Thomas steps as far as possible and will take my 10 year old daughter over next year where we will lay a wreath and pay our respects.

Very good to hear your great grandad made it through, although he must have seen some terrible things.

I have also contacted the Surrey Infantry Museum for help.

Thank you. x

[Clarek851]

Looking at the information you have provided Gareth I have to some degree seemed to have follwowed Thomas, he was born in Battersea, I didn't now this until recently, however when I first moved to London, l lived in Battersea, in a street almost adjacent to the one Thomas was born in.

I have also worked in Pretoria, South Africa

[gmslewis]

Clarek851,

It's funny sometimes how closely we shadow our ancestors movements without realising. I hope you have a good trip next year, I too am hoping to visit the Western Front in the coming period.

I'm not sure what state Jack was in post war, from what my grandmother told me of him in the twenty or so years after the war I think he suffered some psychological damage like so many others I'm sure.

Best of luck in your research,

Gareth

[Clarek851]

Just discovered Thomas had a brother (found this out via relatives) who was called George Thomas Keating who survived and had a long career.

He was a year older than Thomas and finished as a Colour Sergeant Major ?

He was in the regiment, they joined together.

[WhiteStarr]

I am trying to find any information about my Great Uncle, George Frederick Stopher White G/9753 10th Battalion Queens Royal West Surrey Regiment who died

12 July 1916 Age 19. Anything appreciated, from the moment he enlisted to where he was when he died. It is 100 years now since his death. His sister was my 'nan', who died in 1980.

[BFBSM]

I am trying to find any information about my Great Uncle, George Frederick Stopher White G/9753 10th Battalion Queens Royal West Surrey Regiment who died

12 July 1916 Age 19. Anything appreciated, from the moment he enlisted to where he was when he died. It is 100 years now since his death. His sister was my 'nan', who died in 1980.

The 10 Battalion War Diaries are available for free from here: http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/war_diaries/local/10Bn_Queens.shtml

Mark

[WhiteStarr]

Thanks Mark, I have already read the diaries and they have provided a lot of detail on what he would have been doing 100 years ago today! The battalion seems to have spent the beginning of the Somme campaign out of the thick of it. Didn't do George any good though, he was wounded on a 'quiet day' and latter died.

Don't suppose you know where trenches 112 to 120 are on a map of Ploegsteert? It was there that he was wounded.

[BFBSM]

Looking at the Diaries available on NMarchive.com, I can place the trenches on map 28SW4 in the region of 28A. This map is available at http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A66954/-/collection.

The region you need to look at is to the bottom of the map, close to the mass of red lines - the German trenches. The British trenches are not actually shown.

When I am at my PC, I shall attempt to find something a little more clear.

Mark

[10th Batt RWS]

My Grandfather served in the 10th battalion until losing a leg to shell fire in 1917. I see from the war diaries that the 11th Shipped out on the SS Caesare but can't find the same type of info for the 10th in their battalion diary. Anybody have any idea what ship they might have used? The 10th appear to have landed at Le Havre the day after the 11th. Also, are there any hospital records that might tell me when he was injured with his blighty? I've searched Forces War Records which only suggest 3 bouts of myalgia but not the serious injury.

Many thanks

[BFBSM]

My Grandfather served in the 10th battalion until losing a leg to shell fire in 1917. I see from the war diaries that the 11th Shipped out on the SS Caesare but can't find the same type of info for the 10th in their battalion diary. Anybody have any idea what ship they might have used? The 10th appear to have landed at Le Havre the day after the 11th. Also, are there any hospital records that might tell me when he was injured with his blighty? I've searched Forces War Records which only suggest 3 bouts of myalgia but not the serious injury.

Many thanks

What was your Grandfather's name? He will probably appear in the published casualty lists which can give you an approximate date.

Also I have looked at information available to me regarding the sailing of the 10th Queen's and can not find any information on the sailing from Southampton. It is possible that records at the Surrey History Centre, Woking, may provide that.

Mark

[10th Batt RWS]

Thanks Mark are the casualty lists on line at all? Caney G/21438.

Shame the diaries for the 10th aren't initially as informative as those of the 11th

Andy

[BFBSM]

Andy,

There are some of the Casualty Lists, published in The Times from War Office Lists, available on The Genealogist website. One of these shows a 21438 W Caney appears in the list on 5th December, 1916.

I conducted a further search on Forces War Records and found the following:

First Name: W

Surname: Caney

Age: 24

Index Number of Admission: 7118

Rank: Private

Service Number: 21438

Years Service: 1 year 10 months

Months With Field Force: 1 year 4 months

Ailment: Gunshot wound leg left, W.

Date of Admission for Original Ailment: 20/09/1917

Date Transferred to Other Hospitals: 20/09/1917

Notes written in the Observations Column: Casualty Clearing Station.

Religion: Church of England

Notes written by FWR when Transcribing: W noted in diseases column = Wound, can be put forward as a eligible candidate to be awarded a wound stripe.

Regiment: Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment)

Battalion: 10th (Service) Battalion (Battersea) (Why is this important?)

Other unit info: C Company

Archive Reference: MH106/175 MH106/175 can be found at The National Archives in Kew, and contains First World War Representative Medical Records of Servicemen from 139th Field Ambulance

https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/records/7790931/private-w-caney-queens-royal-west-surrey-regiment/

There is also an incomplete record on FindMyPast which shows that a 21438 W Caney was admitted to The King o (incomplete), http://search.findmypast.com.au/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007391697%2f00400&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2fsupp%2f450951.

21438, W Caney, also received a Sliver War Badge in 1919:

Name: W. Caney

Discharge Unit: R.W. Surrey

Regiment: Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment

Regimental Number: 21438

Rank: Pte

Badge Number: B155325

Piece: 3046

List Number: E 1201/2-1400/2

Record Group: WO

Record Class: 329

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=XJH6&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=SilverWarBadgeMedals&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsln=Caney&gsln_x=1&_F8007A65=21438&_F8007A65_x=1&MSAV=2&uidh=el4&pcat=39&fh=0&h=261037&recoff=44%2045&ml_rpos=1

Hope this helps with your research.

Mark

[10th Batt RWS]

Thank you Mark, this is definitely my Grandfather. I wonder if a gunshot wound to the leg would result in an amputation? I've always believed (told) it was due to shell fire.

A wound stripe is worn on the uniform, isn't it. Would they have bothered with this if this particular injury resulted in him being discharged?

Are you able to access the record you mention for Dec 1916?

I see 4 records on the website you mention but can see the cost is prohibitive.

Thanks for your help! Much appreciated

[BFBSM]

Thank you Mark, this is definitely my Grandfather. I wonder if a gunshot wound to the leg would result in an amputation? I've always believed (told) it was due to shell fire.

A wound stripe is worn on the uniform, isn't it. Would they have bothered with this if this particular injury resulted in him being discharged?

Are you able to access the record you mention for Dec 1916?

I see 4 records on the website you mention but can see the cost is prohibitive.

Thanks for your help! Much appreciated

I am glad I was able to help.

I can't answer specifics regarding the amputation, but I would think it possible. Have a look at the Australian War Memorial's Medical History, https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RCDIG1069748/, it will help with some of your query on this, I am sure.

Wound stripe queries might be better answered with a new and specific question in the forum.

Copyright issues prevent me from posting further information on the website.

Mark