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15th Battalion Sherwood Foresters


jjmw1946

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Can any one help me.

I am trying to find out where the 15th Service Battalion Sherwood Foresters were fighting on the 15th of October 1916.

As my Grandad was killed on that day.He was attached to the 105th Trench Mortar Battery.

There was supposed to be an inquiry into the cicumstances of his death along with the death of Pte A. Simpson .The Mortar they were operating exploded killing them both.

And is there a transcript of their war diary that can be purchased.

Many Thanks

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Hello

Not much to add via 15th Battn War Diary, just "in the trenches" close to Arras

post-4619-1172253962.jpg

Although i think that T.M.s does refer to trench mortars - need to find Cuthbert Crater on a Trench map I guess

Mike

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here's the map with Cuthbert Crater, a bit pixelated but its on the main road out of Arras

51BNW3 dated 27/12/16

post-4619-1172254945.jpg

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Interesting. Was your Grandfather Albert Wilson? He and Simpson are the only deaths in the 15th Battalion for that day. They are officially recorded as 'Died', so it was not the result of enemy action directly.

His details are: Born Whittington Moor, Chesterfield, enlisted Chesterfield, residence Brimington. Simpson was from Birmingham.

Mike - did TM Batteries have WD's in addition to their parent battalions do you know?

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Interesting. Was your Grandfather Albert Wilson? He and Simpson are the only deaths in the 15th Battalion for that day. They are officially recorded as 'Died', so it was not the result of enemy action directly.

His details are: Born Whittington Moor, Chesterfield, enlisted Chesterfield, residence Brimington. Simpson was from Birmingham.

Mike - did TM Batteries have WD's in addition to their parent battalions do you know?

I think this may be the one my father was doing a family histoty but he died very suddenly about 3yrs ago now so I am trying to pick up where he left off.

jeff

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Interesting. Was your Grandfather Albert Wilson? He and Simpson are the only deaths in the 15th Battalion for that day. They are officially recorded as 'Died', so it was not the result of enemy action directly.

His details are: Born Whittington Moor, Chesterfield, enlisted Chesterfield, residence Brimington. Simpson was from Birmingham.

Mike - did TM Batteries have WD's in addition to their parent battalions do you know?

soprry to appeart thick but what are wd's

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Mike - did TM Batteries have WD's in addition to their parent battalions do you know?

Andrew, you're quite right they did have their own War Diaries. I've had a quick look on the NA site but can't find it :( the Bde Machine WD is there though B) will check again :ph34r:

It should be at Kew though.

It's my understanding (and I might be very wrong) that men from the different Battalions rotated through the Bde TM Battery (presumably when their Battn were in the front line trenches).

The 15th Battn launched a major raid on the 25th October. I would assume that this artillery and TM bombardment on the German wire was in preparation for this attack, which was launched from around Claude, Clarence and Cuthbert craters.

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I think this may be the one my father was doing a family histoty but he died very suddenly about 3yrs ago now so I am trying to pick up where he left off.

jeff

[/quote

Andrew it appears that the mortar he was on exploded and killed them both that is according to The Derbyshire Times of 28th Oct 1916

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Jim - sorry, WD's = War Diaries in our anorak slang!

I'd be surprised if there was much of an enquiry, at least one that provided paprework that is still extant. As Mike says, they were heavily involved in action soon after the event and also before so (no disrespect intended) I would imagine that two accidental deaths would not have weighed too heavily on the thoughts of those present. However there may be something in the service records of either gentlemen, if they have survived, at the National Archives.

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Jim - sorry, WD's = War Diaries in our anorak slang!

I'd be surprised if there was much of an enquiry, at least one that provided paprework that is still extant. As Mike says, they were heavily involved in action soon after the event and also before so (no disrespect intended) I would imagine that two accidental deaths would not have weighed too heavily on the thoughts of those present. However there may be something in the service records of either gentlemen, if they have survived, at the National Archives.

Very Many thanks for all your help.

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Jeff

If you've not seen a picture then here is a TM team in the trenches in 1917

post-4619-1172258670.jpg

looks a bit cold to me :huh:

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Jeff

If you've not seen a picture then here is a TM team in the trenches in 1917

post-4619-1172258670.jpg

looks a bit cold to me :huh:

I was in the Royal Artilley myself but I don't think I would like to be stood next to that drain pipe when it went off.

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I was in the Royal Artilley myself but I don't think I would like to be stood next to that drain pipe when it went off.

Thanks Jeff

I've had one of 'those' days today; but the 'drain pipe' comment has had me laughing so much I forgot why I had one of those days B)

.....and I agree, not sure I'd want to stand anywhere near that thing :unsure:

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Very Many thanks for all your help.

Three of my 9th bn SF men suffered the same fate after Messines. Salvaging Trench Mortar shells - after taking the cap off, the whole lot went up. They are also listed as ' died. The Army is a bit weird on this. For instance some RE's are buried at Bandagehem. They saved the lives of many when a ammo train caught fire. As they were not in the front line, they were awarded Albert Medals and listed as died.

death and maiming was quiet common when after battle salvage took place. The earliest I have found was early 1915 at Locre.

stevem

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Three of my 9th bn SF men suffered the same fate after Messines. Salvaging Trench Mortar shells - after taking the cap off, the whole lot went up. They are also listed as ' died. The Army is a bit weird on this. For instance some RE's are buried at Bandagehem. They saved the lives of many when a ammo train caught fire. As they were not in the front line, they were awarded Albert Medals and listed as died.

death and maiming was quiet common when after battle salvage took place. The earliest I have found was early 1915 at Locre.

stevem

What is an Albert medal and how do I find out which medals he would have received

Jeff

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What is an Albert medal and how do I find out which medals he would have received

Jeff

Is it also possible toegt a larger area map of the Cuthbert crater area so I can get a better idea of where it was.

Thanks

Jeff

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By the way, my records reveal that he would have enlisted on 1st March 1915.

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What is an Albert medal and how do I find out which medals he would have received

Jeff

The Albert Medal was insituted in 1866 for acts of gallantry at sea and in 1877 extended to land as well.

It is the equivalent to a VC but when not under fire. Not sure if the George Cross superseded it or it is still awarded. You had to have a greater chance of dying then living to get it.

stevem

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The Albert Medal was insituted in 1866 for acts of gallantry at sea and in 1877 extended to land as well.

It is the equivalent to a VC but when not under fire. Not sure if the George Cross superseded it or it is still awarded. You had to have a greater chance of dying then living to get it.

stevem

Bad day !!! The Albert Medal was replaced by the George Cross in early 70's

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jjmw1946 said:
Is it also possible toegt a larger area map of the Cuthbert crater area so I can get a better idea of where it was.

There's a slightly larger version of Mike's here:

 

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I've tried to shrink as big a map as I can

(.tiff to powerpoint to .pdf to .jpg to compress :blink: )

but its lost resolution; the crater is marked with a red circle, Arras bottom left

post-4619-1172335752.jpg

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and this is modern map, but not quite sure I've got it. It might be where Brit Cem is near to the railway

or maybe near cem between Les Lignes and "D60" :unsure:

post-4619-1172335879.jpg

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