Glyn Llanwarne Posted 20 October , 2007 Share Posted 20 October , 2007 Hello every one, I think forum members might be interested in this article from today's Independent. http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3078962.ece Yours in service, Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 20 October , 2007 Share Posted 20 October , 2007 Ooooh, we're famous at last! Thanks for the link Glyn. I'll have to email him and tell him my surname. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 20 October , 2007 Share Posted 20 October , 2007 And mine Sherlock ... you would be lost without moiye! :D Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 20 October , 2007 Share Posted 20 October , 2007 Absolutely! Tim Holmes and Sandra Marple Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 20 October , 2007 Share Posted 20 October , 2007 Cor blimey. The Famous Five or howevermany. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 21 October , 2007 Share Posted 21 October , 2007 Erm, you do realise that in the Famous Five, Timmy was the dog. Say "woof", Tim. Congrats, you lot, for a job well done! Fabulous recognition. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 21 October , 2007 Share Posted 21 October , 2007 "Woof" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 21 October , 2007 Share Posted 21 October , 2007 I've just spent some time revisiting this case and the more I read, the more I'm convinced that Wills and Mellor (Samuel) were the same person. I think it also important to point out that the aim is not to find redemption for Mellor's actions regardless of age or circumstance. He committed murder simply to avoid apprehension, for that there is no excuse. Why I do think it important to try and establish the truth is to make some amends for not granting a condemned lad's last request for his mother to be informed of his fate and to perhaps offer some peace to his devoted mother who until her dying day was heartbroken by his apparent disappearance. She was as much a casualty of the war as the soldiers who fought in it. I think it rather poignant to finish this post with a few excerpts from Elizabeth Mellor's last letter in 1939, "I had a son named Samuel Mellor............" "His number was 1709 or 709, I forget now it was so long ago, though my tears don't dry when I think of him......" "He joined up under the name of Richard Rowley Mellor, that was his elder brother........." "He gave his age as 22 but my darling was only 17 years.............." "I am now nearing the closing of life. I am 80. I would feel very grateful to you for a reply............" She never received the reply she longed for. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest uncletony Posted 21 October , 2007 Share Posted 21 October , 2007 Hi, my first post. Here is something that might shine a bit of light on the secrecy issue :- ref: rufnek http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=368010 Another war film from a later period in South African history that was based on a true incident was Breaker Morant, about Australian soldiers who followed "unofficial" orders to assassinate suspected rebels in the so-called "Boer war," and who were then executed as a sop to world opinion. It rased such a political stink in Australia that a few years later when Britain needed its empire to fight the Kaiser during World War I, the Aussies insisted on keeping their men under their own commanders who would decide any punishment for offenses. As I recall, the British shot many of their own soldiers for various offensives during WWI, but none of the Australian troops ever faced firing squads. Not true it would appear. Mellor would have been regarded as a thoroughly bad lot by both British and Australian officers. They probably agreed he should be shot. Hence all the secrecy. Regards Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worcesterman Posted 24 October , 2007 Share Posted 24 October , 2007 In my previous posts on this topic I was going to try and make contact with descendents of the Mellors. I have attempted to re-contact the family member of the real Richard Mellor but with no success. Maybe their email has changed since my previous contact 12 months previous or other reasons. I do have a name (not Mellor) and place in NSW though. Recently, I have had contact from another member of the Mellor family, descended from one of the sisters of Richard and Samuel Mellor. Elizabeth Mellor died in 1951, so another 12 years suffering I presume since her letter of 1939. The informant for the death was Richard Rowley Mellor her son, who, as we have gathered from the war record, ‘lent’ his identity to Samuel who was under age, something he apparently did again for his brother in law after the war! Unfortunately there appeared to be no contact again between this part of the family and Elizabeth Mellor and I had no reaction to the tragic story that has unravelled from the war record of Richard/Samuel. So there are descendents about, but maybe they know nothing or maybe some other reason. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 24 October , 2007 Share Posted 24 October , 2007 Simon, Are you able to PM or email me what details you have for the Mellor contacts? Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 Hi All, Great news about this mystery! Thanks to Simon (Worcesterman) for sending me some information about possible family connections. Through that information I've been able to contact the family of Richard Rowley Mellor. What this means is that Wills most certainly was not Richard Mellor and supports the theory that it was actually Samuel. Further to this the family were surprised to hear of a WW1 service file for Richard because they didn't think he'd ever served during the war. Again, this only adds more weight to the assumption that it was in fact Samuel who enlisted. I have sent an email to the family contact and included a link to this thread so hopefully they'll be along soon to read about our investigation. With a bit of luck we might be able to establish what became of Samuel and either debunk or further strengthen the suggestion that Wills and Samuel Mellor were one in the same. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 Well done Tim Holmes ... and without Sandra Marple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger5410 Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 I've been following this thread with great interest and don't know if it's relevant or not but whilst compiling a nominal roll of all that enlisted in my city in WW1 I found that another Australian soldier, 60118 Pte Albert James Fraser, was hanged for murder in Glasgow 26/5/20 after being declared an illegal absentee on 5/7/19. I have copies of the court proceedings to be found in his service records and correspondence subsequent to his execution but don't know how to insert them into a post. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 His service record can be seen here: http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1 Interesting comparison between the two .... thanks Rod Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Doneley Posted 27 October , 2007 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2007 Fraser's records are indeed interesting. Similar offences - desertion, resulting in murder - with the same penalty (death) applied. The obvious difference been that Fraser never pretended to be anyone but Pte Fraser, AIF, while Mellor pretended to be Wills. But this was discovered at the time - so why was Mellor's case hushed up? It would seem that the answer lies in files yet to found or opened. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 As I keep telling my mate Tim Holmes ... there is something not right with Wills/Mellor's case ... I am not entirely sure what it is. If the Aust Govt wanted to keep the execution of Wills/Mellor quiet and marked his file SECRET then why not Fraser's? I am convinced though that for the file to be marked SECRET then there was more to it than we know. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 Do we actually know when the file was marked 'secret'? Was it at the time, or later when they started getting letters from the mother? I think it's that they knew they had stuffed up not passing along to his mother his final message before he died, not that they were hushing up the actual execution. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 On a webpage about Shepton Mallet prison it says: A further four men hanged there in the years 1914 - 1926. The first of these executions was that of Henry Quarterly on Tuesday the 10th of November 1914 for shooting dead his neighbour, Henry Pugsley. Thomas Pierrepoint officiated at his hanging. Verney Hasser followed Quarterly to the gallows on Tuesday the 5th of March 1918. Hasser was an Australian soldier stationed at Sutton Veney during World War 1, who had shot a fellow soldier, Joseph Durkin. He was tried at Devizes in Wiltshire in January 1916 and subsequently hanged by John Ellis. I was wondering if Hasser's file was marked 'secret' as well. However, I can't find it on the Australian National Archives. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 27 October , 2007 Share Posted 27 October , 2007 http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1 http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1 This one has not been digitised. Title Crimes and Punishments. Rex v Cpl Verney Asser charged with the murder of Pte J H Durkin, 5372, B Company 6th Battalion (10 Jan 1916 - 15 Mar 1918) Series number AWM10 Control symbol 4304/9/75 Contents date range 1916 - 1918 Access status Open Location Australian War Memorial Barcode 644594 Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 28 October , 2007 Share Posted 28 October , 2007 Thanks, Sandra. Those brits - they're either dropping their h's or adding them on! Well, that file certainly isn't marked 'secret'. Interesting reading, though. Stowed away on a troop ship to Egypt! Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 28 October , 2007 Share Posted 28 October , 2007 No ... so it would appear that the theory of the Aust Govt wanting to hush up exections of their own may not be a valid one. The only difference between the executions of these two and Wills is the fact that they were carried out in the UK by hanging. I have read and heard how the Aust authorities went to great lengths to cover up the details of men who were committed to asylums during the war. Like Mellor's mother ... the families never found out what became of those men. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 28 October , 2007 Share Posted 28 October , 2007 Was Mellor/Wells tried in a civillian court, or military one? And what about Fraser? Could that be a difference? Asser was tried and convicted in a civil court (see pg 14 of his long file). If Mellor/Wells was tried by the military and executed, that could be partially why they hushed it up. Even though the crime was murder, the public thought being executed by the military was not the 'done thing' and there may have been quite a public outcry. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 28 October , 2007 Share Posted 28 October , 2007 Allie ... go to the beginning of the thread. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 28 October , 2007 Share Posted 28 October , 2007 *scurries back to re-read* Okay, yup. Up to speed. Asser and Fraser both civil court trials in UK - files not secret. Mellor/Wells military court in British Army with whom he was serving - file secret. So... I wonder what information was given to the families of Australian men who were executed for military offences (non-murder) with other armies? E.g. the two or three Australian men executed whilst serving with the NZEF? Obviously they'd not have an Australian file to look up. But it would be interesting to know if there was any way to find out. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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