Frank Wills or Richard Mellor

[montbrehain]

I have contacted people with my surname whilst my wife and I have been Researching our family tree. So far had no problems. at the best they are interested (even if no relation ) at worst they are indifferant. Its worth a try ?

[Ozzie]

Tim, I take back what I said about a lawyer. You definately are detective material. You have the curiousity.

Just a thought.

Re: Contacting present Mellor.

How would it be if you rang that relative, , (no mention of murder), but you may get that person,( if not they have not already done so), started on the trail of looking at their relatives service record, and they find what they would find. They may not thank you for it.

Very touchy problem??

Another thought.

It has been mentioned, "what caused the man to murder." Did Mellor have a drink problem. Spirits can cause different reactions in different people. Rum can be drunk by twenty people with no change in personality, but the 21st person can drink it and turn into a raving, violent idiot.

(Have worked more than a few bars, and seen the results. Refused to serve spirits to a few people after seeing the results.)

Kim

[Auimfo]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone,

I've phoned a few possible relatives when researching soldiers for others on this forum and every time I've been fortunate enough to strike it lucky. Admittedly, in those cases it was for positive reasons whereas in this instance it's a bit negative which the family may not be too keen to know.

Then again, if it was me, I'd want to know anyway, even if just to bring resolution to the issue.

If this person is a relative and is interested I think it might be prudent to preface the information with a bit of a disclaimer like "What we have found only constitutes suspicions and not hard fact" and "I'm prepared to share the information with you but be aware that the answers may be a little disturbing to members of your family and are probably not what you were hoping for".

Anyway, I'll think it over before calling. I've had plenty of experience being diplomatic and I think I can handle this without causing distress. I think the passage of time will also assist as it is very unlikely any family members who actually knew Mellor would still be alive.

I'll let you know how I go.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Fedelmar]

I look forward to hearing the results of your decision Tim ...

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Auimfo]

Ok,

I rang the Mellor's in Glebe. Luckily I didn't have to be diplomatic because they're not related - just a coincidence.

They moved to Australia from Cheshire about 30 years ago.

Back to the drawing board.

Tim L.

[Bob Doneley]

Well, it's a lazy Sunday afternoon here, I've mowed the yard, and now I've re-read Mellor's file again...

Nothing much to add to what we've all gleaned here, except 2 things:

1) a brief summary of Mellor's service

2) some signals between senior officers in 1919 about the matter.

Service:

23/10/15 Embarked Sydney, HMAT Hawke’s Bay

12/2/16 Admitted 4th Aux Hosp, Cairo with mumps

1/3/16 TOS 1st LHR reserve

19/4/16 TOS 4th Div Cycling Coy

2/5/16 Admitted to hospital – anaemia

11/6/16 Sailed for England

18/8/16 TOS, Weymouth Training Depots

22/8/16 Medical Board, Weymouth - chronic ear infection since January. Ear drum perforated, recommended for RTA (unfit for general service, fit for home service)

21/9/16 Marched out to Rollestone

7/11/16 – AWL, Salisbury

10/1/17

10/1/17 Arrested by MP in Reading – without a pass

28/1/17 DCM for AWL, Rollestone – pleaded guilty, sentenced to 6 months detention. Brig Moore, GOC AIF Depots remitted 2 months. Claimed at this time that he was 19years & 3 months old

5/2/17 AWL, Rollestone

22/5/18 Surrendered from AWL, marched into 5th Trg Bn,

29/5/18 AWL, Fovant

1/4/20 Discharged from the AIF on account of desertion

Signals.

As you know, Sampson visited Wills and took a statement from him. Wills asked Sampson to let his mother know what had happened to him. This is in both Sampson's statement and his diary.

Between May and June 1919 there were several signals between various echelons of AIF Command, asking what action should be taken regarding the execution of Wills/Mellor. Finally, on the 12/6/19, a cable from Brig ? i/c AIF Administration to AIF HQ Detachment, advised them that the Judge Advocate General had decided to take no further action regarding Wills/Mellor, and that Sampson had been advised.

After that, everything went quiet... In 1933 more enquiries were made by Mrs Mellor, through her local Member (Jennings), and a reply was formulated to the Defence Department outlining Sampson's interview, and stated, amongst other things, previous correspondents writing about Mellor had all been told that he was AWL and an illegal absentee, and nothing had been heard of him since 29/5/18 - and that this reply was by instruction of Army Headquarters.

So, it would seem to me that the AIF and later the Defence Department:

a) knew that Mellor and Wills were the same person;

knew that Mellor had been executed for murder;

c) Classified the whole incident as 'Secret', and decided to never tell his mother what had really happened. Sampson must never have written to her as requested by Mellor/Wills, as there is no mention of having done so in his diary and no mention from Mrs Mellor as having received such a letter.

By the standards of the day, Mellor's/Wills' execution was the appropriate punishment for the crime of murder. There was at least one other case of an Australian been hung in the UK for murder. So what was so special about this case that the decision was made to keep it secret? Why did the Defence Department let Mrs Mellor die without knowing what had happened to her much loved son?

As a father, I found it difficult to read Mrs Mellor's letters, especially as the years went by. To never know what happened to your child, to not even have the closure of "Missing, believed killed" but just "Illegal absentee, don't know where he is" would have been heart-breaking. A tragic story.

But I still want to know why it was classified 'Secret'!

Bob

[Bob Doneley]

knew that Mellor had been executed for murder;

Don't know where that icon came from?

[alliekiwi]

Bob, the forum puts in that smilie when you do a combination of b and ) like this: Better to use a. b. etc to avoid it.

I think it's terrible that Mrs Mellor was not informed. What was the harm in letting her know what happened to her son?

Allie

[Fedelmar]

At least you know you tried Tim ... and if you were meant to find them it will happen

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Auimfo]

I'll keep looking Sandra - already found another possible!

It's interesting to note in Bob's post that Mellor claimed to be 19 yrs and 3 months old in 1917. That doesn't add up with Richard who was born in 1893 but DOES match with Samuel who was born in 1898. Is this a bit more proof that it was actually Samuel that signed up in 1915 using his brother's name?

(Oh, and I think I found another brother in the NA - Basil William Mellor)

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Fedelmar]

I noticed that Tim. That was one of the reason's I included the full DOB's.

I saw that there were a few years between births but found what I had set off to look for sh didn't check any further.

The more evidence we find the more it points to Wills.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Fedelmar]

Just revisting this again ...

Whilst all indicators point to them being the same man, and it is highly likely that they are, there is just something about it that still has me questioning

This thread got me thinking again ... particularly Chris Baker's post and Michael's. Naturally it will mean someone will need to check the files.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=70042&hl=

I was wondering if there might be some other information about WILL's in the UK records ... mainly his physical description or something to prove conclusively who he is.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Will O'Brien]

Guys.............I have nothing to add to this thread except to say that this forum never ceases to astound me. I've not been able to visit for a few days & have stumbled on this thread amongst the 28 pages of threads since the last time I logged on. I applaud all the efforts that have been made to tease out this mystery.

[Worcesterman]

Hi all

My First post.

I have come across this thread with great interest, as Richard Mellor (or Samuel as he appeared to be) and I are related through his Grandfather. I have been looking into the war records of 2 of his cousins, one English one Australian who, from opposite sides of the world, were to eventually die within a couple of miles of each other in 1917. I have only become aware of Richard through this thread as his birth was registered as Miller (as picked up here).

Some background information.

The family originate from Droitwich, Worcestershire (England), their name being Meller. During the 1870s 2 brothers Martin Howard Meller and Herbert Meller emigrated to Australia, Martin settled in Qeensland, Herbert in Sydney.

Martin married Eliza (or Elizabeth Jessie Laing) Rowley (possibly Scottish) and had at least 9 children variously seen in the QLD birth register (recently available online) as Meller, Mellor and Miller, all identified by their distinctive mother and Father’s names, some (Samuel, Richard, William (Basil), another Martin Howard) being identified in this thread. At some time most of this family and descendents appeared to have settled on Mellor. His brother and his descendents remain Meller.

Martin died 1907 and Eliza moved to Sydney where she married the twice widowed brother of Martin, Herbert! She was widowed again 1913 and appears to have reverted to Mellor. Herbert’s youngest son born in 1899 also lied about his age joining up in February 1916 and killed in 1917 probably still only 17.

A Richard R Mellor has been identified as marrying in 1923, there is also a marriage of Richard Rowley Mellor in 1943. Maybe this is the original 1893 Richard or maybe a son as the family over the generations have a propensity of reusing all first names. (there appear to be at least 5 generations of Martin Howard Mellor for instance).

The son Elizabeth mentions in one letter was Basil, whose war record seems as light as Richard’s is heavy.

Looking through Richard’s record I was hoping to find out where he was during his second period of desertion from Feb 1917 to May 1918, but he chose not to say. He would have had family in England, certainly one Aunt in Worcester and one in York, although whether he was aware of this I don’t know.

I did have contact a couple of years ago with someone whose husband, I believe, is possibly a direct descendent of Elizabeth Mellor, as she mentioned that Elizabeth was back in Queensland in 1943 with the in laws family. I will try to contact her again, maybe she can reveal more. Death notices posted in both Brisbane and Sydney newspapers (familiar names pop up) show both Meller and Mellor probabably still live there.

Elizabeth’s letters seem to show a woman who became ever desperate to believe her son was still alive, and probably consumed her life it would be unlikely that the family did not know about the story, but maybe not the final outcome.

Of course, I may share the DNA with a man buried in Le Havre. Now there’s an idea.

Simon

[montbrehain]

Great first post on a very interesting subject. Welcome to the forum "MO"

[Worcesterman]

Great first post on a very interesting subject. Welcome to the forum "MO"

Thank you

[Worcesterman]

Oh, haven't quite got the hang of this yet as I meant to add more.

The letter written from Mellor asking to be picked up puzzles me. The other Australian deserter mentioned in the letter is George Bainbridge, 45th Battalion Bathurst camp NSW. I can only find the service record of one George Bainbridge in the 45th, and he did indeed desert from Bathurst camp on 5/2/1916.

And that is all that is in his records. The letter has the address No1 Kemble St, Bruce House, Drury Lane (at the time a hostel for homeless men). So how did George Bainbridge end up in London? Did he also take on a different name at some point?

[Ozzie]

Welcome.

Tim will be pleased about the new posts!

Cheers

Kim

[Auimfo]

Oh, just spotted this but won't have a chance to have a read in depth until tonight - I'm off the the footy today.

Sounds like Worcesterman has some great info to offer!

Cheers,

Tim L.

P.S. Welcome to the forum Worcesterman. You've joined the finest forum on the web and am sure you'll enjoy yourself here with us.

[Auimfo]

Simon (Worcesterman),

I've had a good read of your posts now and it adds a great deal to the background of the family - thanks for that.

Firstly, are you aware of whether we're talking about Richard or Samuel? My thoughts and all the available evidence (including the statement made by their mother) would indicate that it was actually the younger brother Samuel Mellor.

Obviously you've stumbled upon Richard/Samuel Mellor by chance through enquiries about your family history. Are you able to say whether Richard/Samuel's mother or descendants ever had any idea what became of him? Eliza's letters certainly strike me as being from a mother who was desperate to find out what happened rather than someone wanting confirmation of how.

I know your link to the brothers is a little distant but I'd be interested to know your thoughts about officially marking the grave with the correct name. (This assumes that Wills and Mellor were the same person but I feel fairly confidant that we can work on that basis for now) I suppose I am a little remote from the effects this may have on any current family and therefore feel their input very relevant to the discussion.

Did finding out that a relative had been executed for murder have any impact on you or are they to distant for it to have caused a problem? How do you think more closely linked relatives may feel about the information?

Please feel free to ignore any of my questions if you feel they are too personal. It's just that I think the privacy and wishes of current family is of utmost importance regarding this issue.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Ozzie]

Simon, that is the detective in him, coming out. But all would be interested in your answers. They would help shed light on some other topics that have been discussed in other threads, Re: Family interest etc.

Cheers

Kim

[Auimfo]

Just thought I'd bring this back to the top in the hope that Simon might find it.

(I hope I haven't scared him off with too many difficult questions all at once )

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Worcesterman]

No, I'm still here, more pressing things to do I'm afraid.

I've just spent a bit more time re reading all the records for Richard.

Tim, I think I'll go to the end of your last post to start off with. I have been wondering how to approach the family contact, not knowing what the reaction maybe. I have tonight finally sent an email to the last contact address that I had, hopefully not to appear voyeuristic. We'll see. I think the the real Richard may well be in this family line, and Samuel is the subject of the war record. I wonder why he lied about who he was when most of the young men just lied about their age, unless of course he was trying to run away from something, it did seem to be a common theme later.

As for whether he was Frank Wills I think I'll hold back until I hear back from my email.

A possible murderer in the family? That fact hasn't had an effect on me at the moment, the execution does, although difficult to explain.

I'll wait for possibly more information and keep you all posted

Simon

[stevenbecker]

Hello everyone ... just wanted to let you know that I had read the new posts to the topic. As you will see that letter bugged me then and still does now.

I wont be participating in the thread though for family reasons which Tim and and Kim are aware of.

I do hope that some closure for his mother can be acheived even though it comes some many years later.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Auimfo]

Simon,

Thanks for the reply. I understand the potential sensitive nature of this enquiry and will respect the thoughts and wishes of your family although it is a fascinating story. Hopefully we might be able to reach a conclusion to this mystery without causing anyone any anguish.

Sandra,

I fully understand. My thoughts are with you and your family and I sincerely hope everything turns out for the best.

Cheers,

Tim L.