Australian Unit Histories

[Andrew P]

Hi

I have many Australian battalion & unit histories if anyone needs any information from them. Some of them are

2ndBattalion AIF

3rd Battalion AIF

7th Battalion AIF

8th Battalion AIF

11th Battailon AIF

12th Battalion AIF

13th Battalion AIF

14th Battalion AIF

16th Battalion AIF

17th Battalion AIF

21st Bn AIF

23rd Bn AIF

25th Bn AIF

28th Bn AIF

29th Bn AIF

30th Bn AIF

32nd Bn AIF

37th Bn AIF (Thanks Dolphin)

40th Bn AIF

44th Bn AIF

45th Bn AIF

48th Bn AIF

10th Light Horse

13th Light Horse

3rd Field Ambulance

9th Field Ambulance

3rd AFC Squadron

King Edwrads Horse

Plus a set of Charles Bean's histories.

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew P]

Forgot to mention that I also have access to many Australian units embarkation rolls, plus information regarding the Australian Tunnelling Companies.

Cheers

Andrew

[Jonathan Saunders]

Andrew,

The nominal roll is on line at the AWM or Archives Australia site (forget which) and is a tremendous starting resource for anyone investigating an AIF man, and might stop you getting bogged down with some requests for info.

I'd be grateful if you could have a quick look at the Bean histories and if the info is available, let me know to what extent the 4th Bttn were involved in fighting on or around the 30th May 1918.

Also the 2nd Company Machine Gun - yr 2nd Bttn unit history might clarify if this was the MG Corp attached to the 2nd battalion. If so can you let me know how they were involved at Ypres leading up to and on 20 Sept 1917.

Many thanks in advance and if you cant help then no worries.

[Andrew P]

Hi Signals

According to Bean the 4th Battalion(and the whole 1st Brigade) was relieved in the front line on May 27th by the 3rd Brigade AIF.

They then went into a rest camp for a few days before coming back into the line around Merris/Meteren in early June.

The battalion histories I have of the 4th's sister battalions(1st & 3rd Bn) also make mention of the move out of the line on May 27th.

In regard to the Machine Gun units of the AIF, in early 1916 when the Australian units were being reformed in Egypt, each Brigade was allotted a Machine Gun Company thus the 1st Brigade had the 1st Machine Gun Company, 2nd Brigade the 2nd Machine Gun Company and so on.

This changed in 1918 however as the machine gun companies were formed into battalions which supported each division.

So the 2nd Machine Gun Company which you asked about would join up with the 1st & 3rd MG Companies to become part of the 1st Machine Gun Battalion.

Unfortunately the only machine gun unit history I have is the 6th Machine Gun Company, which in 1918 formed part of the 2nd Machine Gun Battalion.

I would imagine however that the 2nd Machine Gun Coy would have had similar tasks to the 6th MG Coy at Ypres.

According to the history of the 6th MG Coy called 'In Good Company'

"To carry out the plan, the 16 Machine gun companies in the corps were, as they arrived in the ypres sector, detached from the control of their repective brigades and came under direct control of Corps headquarters..........................'the role of the Vickers guns was laid down as follows:

1-Harrasing fire prior to the attack

2-Mobile guns for consolidation of ground won

3-Indirect creeping barrage

4-SOS line barrage 400 yards in front of final objective

5-Fire on special targets

6-Reserves'

It seems as if the guns of the various companies were scattered among these tasks.

Hope this was what you were after.

Cheers

Andrew

[Jonathan Saunders]

Andrew,

Many thanks for taking the time to look this up and it gives me a good foundation to work on.

Cheers!

[Martin B]

Andrew,

I'd be really interested in any info you might have on the 10th LH.

Could you do me a potted service history ?

Cheers

Martin

[Andrew Hesketh]

Andrew,

Awkward request (so feel free to ignore it!), but would it be possible to look up what Bean has to say about the activities of the Imperial Camel Corps at Amman on 30 March 1918? Im interested in the 9th Company, 2nd Battalion in particular, which was the non-Australian/New Zealand component, and the deaths of 2nd Lt. Thomas Rowland Smith and Captain Newsome. I have the war diary extract and some other pieces but I've never seen Bean's account (if there is one).

Thanks,

Andrew

[Andrew P]

Andrew,

I'd be really interested in any info you might have on the 10th LH.

Could you do me a potted service history ?

Cheers

Martin

Hi Martin

The 10th Light Horse had quite an eventful war to say the least.

They were the only Mounted unit to come out of Western Australia and started existence in the latter half of 1914, with their first commander being Lt-Col Noel Brazier.

After initial training in Western Australia, the unit embarked on the ship A47 'Mashobra' on the 8th of February 1915, bound for Egypt.

After reaching Alexandria on March 8th, the 10th LH moved out for further training at Mena camp and were situated here until April 27th when they moved to Heliopolis.

While here the choice was made for the Light Horse to embark for Gallipoli without their horses, so on May 16th the 10thLH, under the command of Major Love left Alexandria bound for Gallipoli, where they landed on May 21st.

The 10th firstly helped to garrison places such as Quinns Post & Pope's Hill and took part in a few actions at Quinns.

By June 4 the regiment was moved to Walkers Ridge and stayed in this area culminating in the attack on the Nek on August 7th. In this attack the 8th Light Horse provided the first two lines while the 10th supplied the 3rd & 4th.

The 8th LH was decimated & the 10th also lost heavily.

It was thought that some men of the 8th Light Horse had entered the Turkish trenches, so the the men of the 10th were sent to their fate.

After this attack, instead of being rested, what was left of the regiment was thrown into the deadly fighting around Hill 60, where many men who had survied the Nek, perished. It was here that the only VC awarded to a lighthorseman was given. Lt Hugo Throsell who was severley wounded was awarded the VC for his outstanding leadership of a group of men who threw around 3000 bombs while under constant attacks by the Turks.

After gaining ground at Hill 60, the 10th were sent to the trenches at Rhododendron Spur where they garrisoned till evacuation.

After returning to Egypt, the 10th firstly moved to the Sinai and in the summer of 1916 operated around the Wadi Mukhsheib and were later sent on to Romani.

By December of 1916 the 10th played a huge role in the capture of Maghdaba and early January 1917 assisted in the capture of Rafa.

The 10th also took part in the first and second battle for Gaza. After these battles the 10th patrolled around Philistia.

In October 1917, the Regiment served in successful attack on Beersheba, though was not involved in that famous charge, but assisted on the flanks.

After the capture of Beersheba, the regiment patrolled around Wadi Jemmameh, Huj, Lachish & Gath and through the Judean Hills.

On November 20th 1917 Lt-Col Todd of the 10th was informed that this regiment would be the only Australian unit directly involved in the capture of Jerusalem and on December 9th became the first mounted unit to enter the city.

After a rest at Belah camp in early 1918, the 10th moved out on April 1st towards Jericho, but was involved in the complicated attacks on Es Salt & the Jordon Valley.

In September 18, the unit operated around Jenin and took a direct role in the fall of Damascus, accepting the surrender of the city before pushing on to attack the Turks outside of the city. Much later Lawrence and his arabs came.

The 10th followed up the Aleppo Rd and spent some time patrolling the area and arrived at Homs in early November 18 and after the armistice arrived at Tripoli.

Before leaving for home the 10th was also involved in the Egyptian uprising.

Hope this was what you were after.

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew P]

Andrew,

Awkward request (so feel free to ignore it!), but would it be possible to look up what Bean has to say about the activities of the Imperial Camel Corps at Amman on 30 March 1918? Im interested in the 9th Company, 2nd Battalion in particular, which was the non-Australian/New Zealand component, and the deaths of 2nd Lt. Thomas Rowland Smith and Captain Newsome. I have the war diary extract and some other pieces but I've never seen Bean's account (if there is one).

Thanks,

Andrew

Hi Andrew

I haven't got access to the official history at the moment, but going on memory while that raid was mentioned by the official historian Henry Gullett, I'm not sure how much he would have gone into the 2nd Battalions actions, apart from mentioning officer casualties.

There's a chap on this forum called Steve Becker who has a heap of info on the Camel Corps who may be able to help you more than I can, or alternatively you can try to contact him on the lighthorse forum

http://www.lighthorse.org.au

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew Hesketh]

Andrew,

Thanks for the tips - much appreciated.

All the best,

Andrew

[Martin B]

Andrew,

Many thanks indeed for the info on the 10th LH. I'm interested because of their affiliation to the 10th Hussars. I have their Black Swan cap badge and collar dog and the info you've provided is just what I needed.

Cheers

Martin

[Guest stevebec]

Andrew H.

I just noticed this and may have answered your question about Lt Smith before.

But on the night 29/30th March 1918 the 9th company was part of the attcking force on the turkish trenches in front of Ammen.

The first wave consisted of two sections of the 4th (Aust), 7th, 9th and 18th (Aust) companies under Capt Newsam.

The second wave were thother two sections of these companies under Capt Deas.

The total force was around 200 men. A further 200 men from two companies of the 2/18th London completed the attacking troops.

At 2 AM the Artillary began to fall and the troops attacked at 3.30 AM.

The quickly captured the fist turk trenches on hill 400 and a second line further on.

As the troops consolidated a number of men under Lt Matthews went into Amman but were stopped by fire and latter withdrawn to the captured trenches.

Capt Newsom was report shot in the back by an enemy soldier who it was said had already surrendered when the first trench fell. But this is a common coment of the times and I hear it often.

In the Morning the turks sent in a number of counter attacks and Lt Smith was mortally wounded attending to the defences, Lt Denley was killed also.

The troops held there positions all day and could not move untill night came and the wounded and all troops could be withdrawn.

The attacking troops lost four British officers and 40 men Killied and some 20 australian casulties. The 2/18th London casulties are unknown to me.

Hope this helps

S.B

[michaeldr]

A brief public word of thanks to Andrew P who has been of great help to me with 'look-ups;' even though the 16th Batt. is not on his list above he has still managed to provide the info

Many thanks Andrew for looking after this PAL

Best regards

Michael D.R.

[Ian Underwood]

Andrew

I'm not sure if you can help, but I have two men I'm researching, both in Field Engineer Companies. Would you have information on their specific company's actions in any of your units histories around the following short periods.

1. The first chap was in the 2nd Field Company of Engineers, 1st Division and was wounded in action in Belgium on 11/8/17 but remained at duty. He was then transferred the following day to the 4th Field Company of Engineers, 4th Division but was wounded in action again 8 days later on the 19/8/17. Presumably, all this took place during 3rd Ypres campaign, but wonder if you can shed any light into his unit's actions on those days around his woundings.

2. The second chap was in the 1st Field Company of Engineers, Ist Division and was only on the front during the following brief months: 16/11/17 to 9/2/18 and 23/3/18 to 20/5/18

By my reckoning his unit would've been involved in the defence of the Hazebrouck/Lys area during the German offensive, but that's all I can find out (or guess).

Any info you can provide would be great,

thanks Ian.

[christine liava'a]

Andrew,

can you explain to me what information Bean has in his Official History on Australians who served in the BEF?

I notice in the entries at the AWM that he collected information about several of them eg G S Kingsell in " biographical and other research files" which are held in AWM 43.

But what does he actually say about them in the Official History?

I have several of these men, and don't want to purchase copies of these files, if the info is summarized in the books.

Christine

[Andrew P]

Hi Ian

I'll see what I can come up with in regard to these engineering companies and will get back to you when I find something.

Christine

The information Bean has about Australians who served in the BEF is pretty minimal. For people he mentions in the text there is a brief biographical account which would just say the regiment they served in & where they came from in Australia.

Two instances I can think of are;

One of the Fremantle chaps I hope to research further served with the 11th Bn at Gallipoli & france but later transferred to the Welch Regiment. Bean mentions this but doesn't go any deeper

Another West Australian farmer who was in England when war broke out served in a British unit and ended up a Lt-Col, but Bean only mentions him because he happened to serve next to an Australian unit.

I've noticed that my great great uncle also has a bibliographical file at the AWM, but doesn't get a mention in Bean, so it might be worth getting these from the AWM as I think it will hopefully provide more info than Bean could put into his histories.

Cheers

Andrew

[Guest stevebec]

Chris,

Just to add.

Bean collected a lot of reseach from many soldiers and most of the extra info (not in the Histories) is held in this records at the AWM.

This info included letters he sent to them or to his mates to gain info on any particular event.

These are great in places depending on the bloke and well worth checking.

S.B

[Andrew P]

Hi Ian

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find much on those engineering companies. From what I've seen neither the 1st, 2nd or 4th Engineer Field Companies produced unit histories. It seems that the only histories for the engineers was done by the 7th, 10th & 11th Field Companies.

There is a book Called 'Sgt Lawrence goes to France'. Lawrence was a member of the 2nd Field Company Engineers but I haven't been able to track it down.

For your first question, I've had a look at battalion histories of units that were in the same brigade as these FCE's and it seems likely both the 1st & 4th Field Companies were in the Messines area holding the line during August.

The 2nd soldier in the 1st FCE from 16/11/17 to 09/02/18 would have been also around Messines & from 23/03/18 to 20/05/18 was as you suggest in the Hazebrouck/Merris area.

Couldn't find any info about the 1st FCE's activities in this area.

Regards

Andrew

[Guest paddy]

G'day Andrew.

I have just noticed your answer to Signals re 2nd Machine Gun Co.

It is actually another spooky co-incidence in a long line of references to the Battle of the Menin Road in which my dad's cousin CSM Jackie Schwarer & Major Tubb VC[7 Bn AIF] were mortally wounded. Yesterday, I finished reading a WW1 Novel in which the main character is killed [like them] near Black Watch Corner, on September 20 1917. He was in the 2nd MGC, and I meant to research them today.

Before doing so I checked the latest posts & this thread was listed.

ANYWAY. Re Signal's query.

2nd MGC was still attached to the 2nd Brigade that day. In their history of 7 Bn, Dean & Gutteridge stated:-

Special mention should be made of the work of the 2nd Light Trench Mortar Battery who were attached to us for the operation and performed valuable work. ... The 2nd Machine Gun Company was likewise of great use, and were with us right throught the piece.

Might be getting boring , but

We decided to have a family "ceremony" at the Melbourne Shrine on Sept 20, 2003. Had flowers with card "Jackie Schwarer, 7 Bn AIF. Asked Curator to open "Memorial Register" at Jackie's page. He saw the 7 Bn card , and said "My Grandfather took over the 7th from Pompey Elliott". [brig -Gen Jess]. A bystander said "MY father was in the 7th, he went Melbourne Grammar just across the road there with a bloke called Dean". Dean was one of the authors of the History.

Incidently, the novel was "Liam's War" by Ann Victoria Roberts. Although more "Romance" than "Historical", I had to read it because it dealt with a Brit who ran away to Australia before WW1 and returned with the AIF. I had recently met a Brit couple at TocH who were tracing one of his rellies who had done the same and ended up with the 7 Bn.

With reference to your unit histories offer, what do you have on 13 ALH?

ooRoo

Pat

[Andrew P]

Hi Pat

Interesting story about the 7th.

I have the 13th Light Horse unit history. As you most likely know the 13th went to France instead of staying in Egypt.

What information were you after?

Regards

Andrew

[Guest paddy]

G'day Andrew.

How does EVERYTHING sound?

I have read "MY CORPS CAVALRY" & also the AWM Diary of a Trooper Rouget.

My uncle [ R Berriman ] told us lotsa warries, and his son has some other stuff.

I am unfamiliar with unit histories as such, so don't know what is available. I will try and contact you off forum.

Thanks

ooRoo

Pat

[Ian Underwood]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find much on those engineering companies. From what I've seen neither the 1st, 2nd or 4th Engineer Field Companies produced unit histories.

There is a book Called 'Sgt Lawrence goes to France'. Lawrence was a member of the 2nd Field Company Engineers but I haven't been able to track it down.

Andrew

Thanks for looking, I appreciate it. Your info does help join the dots with both of these men's service in France.

By the way the first chap from the 2nd and then the 4th FCE is my partner's Great Uncle and has the distiction of holding AIF serial number 86. Apparently he was proud of his number to the day he died...was wounded first day of lone Pine as well.

I take it the book of which you speak, is "Sergeant Lawrence Goes to France" (1987). Presumably the sequel to "The Gallipoli Diary of Sergeant Lawrence" (1981) by Cyril Lawrence?

Having a librarian in family...I can feel an inter-library loan coming on!!

Cheers

Ian.

[Andrew P]

Hi Ian

I'm assuming it is the sequel even though I haven't seen a copy in print.

Hope you have some luck in tracking it down.

Cheers

Andrew

[jack]

My great uncle, 1430 Sapper Frederick John Sheriffs served with 1st Tun Co in 1917 and gained an MM. It is listed in the London Gazette of 25/26 May 1917. Have you any details of, or is there any mention of the actions of the Australian 1st Tun Co. around this time in the Unit History ? Assuming you have one.

Jack

[Neil Mackenzie]

The only battalion history I have which is not on Andrew's impressive list is a history of the 46th battalion. by Ian Polanski.

Happy to provide any extracts if required.

Neil