Thomas Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 A few weeks ago I finished reading The Last Crusade by Anthony Bruce. In the book he describes briefly the actioins of French and Italian units operasting in Palestine after the fall of Jerusalem in December 1917 and the Battle of Meggiddo in September 1918. I was wondering if all French and Italian units in the theatre took the orders directly from the British command or were they able to operate independantly? From, Thomas McCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 What did you think of the book? I found it a bit hard to get into.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 December , 2003 Share Posted 5 December , 2003 Was it the last crusade? Shortly after 9 11 Bush referred to our campaign against terrorism as a crusade, a rather unfortunate choice of words. Osama now frequently calls us crusaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 6 December , 2003 Share Posted 6 December , 2003 I do not know of any Italian units. However, the 5th Light Horse Brigade did include a regiment of French cavalry known as 'Regimente Mixte de Cavalerie'. This comprised two Algerian Spahi squadrons and 2 Chasseurs d'Afrique. The regiment was armed with automatic weapons and they rode Moorish barbs, known for their ability as stayers. They were in action at Megiddo (captured an Austrian artillery battery), Kaukab, and El Mezze. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted 6 December , 2003 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2003 I agree with you Teapots, the book is quite hard to get in to at the start but I found that it eventually picks up. I think that Anthony Bruce skips out detail on some events such as the taking of Aqba. All round though it's a good book. Did you get in to it in the end and enjoy it Teapots? From Thomas McCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Parker Posted 8 December , 2003 Share Posted 8 December , 2003 I read this book several months ago when it was published and found it very interesting. So much so that it kindled an interest the Middle East campaigns during the Great War. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 8 December , 2003 Share Posted 8 December , 2003 Okay, I'll bite the bullet and try and get past chapter 3. As you guys say it is worth reading, I'll persist with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 December , 2003 Share Posted 30 December , 2003 Cavalry: 1st March Regiment of Mixed Cavalry (RMCC) Chris Great info, thanks. The cavalry were under the command of 5th Light Horse Brigade, AusDiv. Do you know who the infantry were attached to? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 The 4th Regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique entered Anebta on 15. Sep 18 with the 5th Australian Light Horse. Colonel Piepate became Military Governor of Beirut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 Please, where are you guys getting this information from...?? I have been looking for references like this for ages. I'd very much like to know some more about the Armenians in the Legion d'Orient. Somewhere, I have a couple of photos which I'll post; probably next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 30th Bat/2/nd Régiment d'Artillerie de Montagne Chris, Do you [or does anyone] have any idea which particular mountain guns this battery were using in Palestine during WWI? A few months ago I spotted a beautiful little French Mountain Gun [c.1910] displayed in the garden outside the door of the Manager's office in a Tel Aviv public park [in my ignorance at the time I thought that perhaps it was an old piece bought in for some later scrap] Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 For Mickael, french mountain gun were probably a "canon de 65mm de montagne modèle 1906" Chris, Many thanks for your speedy reply When I get a chance I will check if the one displayed matches your specification for the 30th Batt., 2nd Regiment d'Artillerie de Montagne Thanks again Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 31 December , 2003 Share Posted 31 December , 2003 My info is from 'Armageddon 1918' by Cyril Falls. I have also posted a photo from the book in the Photos wanted area of the forum. The French Detachment were officially known as 'Detachment Francais de Palestine et Syrie' or D.F.P.S. They were placed under the orders of Maj.Gen. S.W.Hare commanding 54th Div. This map is from the book; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 1 January , 2004 Share Posted 1 January , 2004 Régiment de Tirailleur Algérien See photograph below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 1 January , 2004 Share Posted 1 January , 2004 1st Spahis See photograph below: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 1 January , 2004 Share Posted 1 January , 2004 Sorry, hit the wrong button. Must be suffering from turkey poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 2 January , 2004 Share Posted 2 January , 2004 The pictures are courtesy of Marc Patiou. If you were happy, I could contact Marc and suggest that you be in touch with him directly. I cannot offer you any better quality than what I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 Re the French Mountain Gun mentioned in my earlier post. Chris, your first information was spot-on; 65mm. The maker's plaque on the chassis says "Manufacture 1910 No.114 D'Armes de Tulle" There in also an inscription on the left side near the breach, however this may have been added later when the French left it behind [?] "Canon de 65 Ml [partly obscured] De Montaine No.10 ABS 1919" The gun occupies a place of honour in the garden outside of the park manager's office [however its condition is not being helped by the sprinkler system for the flowers]. The gardeners refer to it as their 'little Napoleon.' The park itself occupies an area of the northern bank of the Nahr el-'Auja [Yarkon] which saw action in 1917. At that time "it was in Turkish hands. During the night of 20-21 December 1917 the British 52nd Division commanded by Maj-Gen Hill, forced a surprise crossing at three different points. At daybreak pontoon bridges were thrown over the 'Auja, and a barrel bridge, previously assembled in the Wadi el-Musrara [Nahr el-Baride on British maps] was floated into the 'Auja and completed on the morning of the 22nd." Gen Hill commemorated the success by setting up an inscribed broken pillar, a monument which is still in place today. Below are photographs of the French Mountain Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 (edited) Below is a photomosaic of 4 photographs taken by the British at 11.00 hrs on 10th December 1917 probably as part of their preparations for Gen Hill's action on the night 20-21 Dec '17. The top is north The photographs are held in the collection of the Israel Antiquities Authority at the Dept of Geography, Aerial Photographs Unit, Hebrew University of Jerusalem A few words of explanation on the aerial photographs would not come amiss. Bottom right-hand corner: there is short strait section of the 'Auja with a road running parallel to it; this is where Maj-Gen Hill's monument stands indicating that he crossed the river at that point. Left-hand side: there is a tributary [whose course is rather like a '3'] which runs into the 'Auja. This is where the barrel bridge was floated into the 'Auja on the morning of the 22nd Dec 1917. Edited 6 January , 2004 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 5 January , 2004 Share Posted 5 January , 2004 Below are seen the monument and its inscription, as set up by Gen Hill These pictures and the one above, plus the quote, are taken from Benjamin Z. Kedar's book "The Changing Land Between the Jordan and the Sea" Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 6 January , 2004 Share Posted 6 January , 2004 Chris, We can't be sure of course, but it is possible that the gun was left behind by the 30th Batt., 2nd Reg. d'Artilleire de Montagne re photographs of the CWGC in Damascus Last year I spoke to the Commission's representative for this area about photographs of graves in Palestine and at that time his suggestion was to put a request into the Commission at their head-office [see 'Links' on A Long, Long Trail] It was described to me as a free service but a small donation is usual, and one must be patient as it depends on the timing of their visits. Try contacting the Commission about Damascus as they probably run the same system for there. Good luck Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 6 January , 2004 Share Posted 6 January , 2004 "Canon de 65 Ml [partly obscured] De Montaine No.10 ABS 1919" The 65mm Schneider-Ducrest (Canon de 65 de montagne modele 1906) was a superb piece of engineering. To reduce weight, it had a box trail split into three sections. The rear section of the trail could be removed if the gun was used in confined spaces. The other interesting feature was the differential recoil system. Before loading, the barrel was pulled to back, compressing the recoil spring. The shell was loaded, the gun laid and then fired. The barrel would spring forward and just before it reached the limit of forward movement, the firing pin was triggered. This would then stop the forward movement before recoiling, reducing the work of the recoil spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 6 January , 2004 Share Posted 6 January , 2004 This thread is fascinating. Many thanks to all of you for posting so much new (to me) material. I have been inspired by you to read more on the subject (and finish off another book - got there in the end, Thomas). Chris, I am following up your useful leads on the Armenians. I was not aware of the American connection - but this has been confirmed by an Armenian bishop in the USA who I am now in contact with. Hopefully the bishop, who appears to be interested, will find out some more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 7 January , 2004 Share Posted 7 January , 2004 I would like to second Teapots; thanks to Thomas for starting off a fascinating trail Robert, Many thanks for the technical info on the French 65mm Gun. It is certainly much more compact that its big brother, the more famous 75mm. Regarding its peculiar action, I understand that this worked well until there was a miss-fire or a dud shell when the gun could be thrown onto its side or more dangerously, forward onto its muzzle Teapots 25 fallen of The Armenian Legion are commemorated on a memorial in Jerusalem and remembered there every 24th April: see http://www.holyland.org/ [click "Deep Rooted Presence" then click "The British are coming"] Regards Michael D.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 7 January , 2004 Share Posted 7 January , 2004 this worked well until there was a miss-fire or a dud shell when the gun could be thrown onto its side or more dangerously, forward onto its muzzle Thanks for this point, Michael. Yes, I could imagine this happening now that you mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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