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4th lowland brigade


macvolvo

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Does anyone know how to find the nominal roll for this unit? My Grandfather was a member. This is my first posting so any hekp is appreciated. My Grandfather's name was Andrew McIndoe. Thanks in advance

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Hi there , welcome to the Forum.

A brigade is a fairly big formation about 4 battalions plus Staff,and a nominal roll would run to some 4,000+ men. :blink: However I had made a check on the National Archives and came up these men.

Medal card of McIndoe, Andrew

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Garrison Artillery 300366 Driver

Royal Field Artillery 1310 Driver

Possible

Medal card of McIndoe, Andrew

Corps Regiment No Rank

Highland Light Infantry 15015 Corporal

Fairly likely if he was a Glaswegian

and

Medal card of McIndoe, Andrew Blair

Corps Regiment No Rank

Reserve Household Battalion

a Cavalry man.

The chap in the artillery was killed during the war in Salonika.

Name: McINDOE

Initials: A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Driver

Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery

Unit Text: Argyll Mountain Bty.

Date of Death: 19/12/1916

Service No: 300366

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: C. 428.

Cemetery: SARIGOL MILITARY CEMETERY, KRISTON

Do you have any more information that could help, photos or medals etc. Did he marry or father a child during the war as his units details would be listed on the certificate?

Hope this assists

John

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Does anyone know how to find the nominal roll for this unit? My Grandfather was a member. This is my first posting so any hekp is appreciated. My Grandfather's name was Andrew McIndoe. Thanks in advance

Hi Mac. Welcome to the forum. Do you know which regiment your Grandfather served in? An Infantry Brigade was generally a part of a Division. Each Division would have several. Brigades. A Brigade consisted of several battalions each of which belonged to a particular Regiment. e,g. the 8th Black Watch was in the 26th Brigade which was part of 9th Division. I believe the Lowland Brigade was the 27th. Which had Royal Scots, Royal Scots Fusiliers and Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, Yes I know. It doesn't always make sense. Post as much info as you can and some of the Pals will be able to tell you what you want to know.

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Hi Mac. Welcome to the forum. Do you know which regiment your Grandfather served in? An Infantry Brigade was generally a part of a Division. Each Division would have several. Brigades. A Brigade consisted of several battalions each of which belonged to a particular Regiment. e,g. the 8th Black Watch was in the 26th Brigade which was part of 9th Division. I believe the Lowland Brigade was the 27th. Which had Royal Scots, Royal Scots Fusiliers and Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, Yes I know. It doesn't always make sense. Post as much info as you can and some of the Pals will be able to tell you what you want to know.

He was in the the 4th lowland howitzer Brigade. He was also in the 4th highland Mountain Battery. I am confused as to why he was in two different units. he has two different numbers listed on his medal card. One is 1310 and I believe that is for service in the 4th lowland brigade . His other number is 300366. He is listed as a driver and was listed as dying from illness on 19 Dec, 1916. I am trying to find history of his units and the reason and date he transferred from each. Iam finding the more I look into this the less I know.

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Would it have been normal for someone like my Grandfather in the TF to have served in two different Artiilery units i.e. the 4th lowland howitzer battery or brigade and then the 4th Highland Mountain Brigade Argyll battery? Granddad was from Glasgow. This has been very confusing .

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"He was in the the 4th lowland howitzer Brigade. He was also in the 4th highland Mountain Battery. I am confused as to why he was in two different units."

Name: McINDOE

Initials: A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Driver

Regiment/Service: Royal Garrison Artillery

Unit Text: Argyll Mountain Bty.

Date of Death: 19/12/1916

Service No: 300366

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: C. 428.

Cemetery: SARIGOL MILITARY CEMETERY, KRISTON

Both units fall under the umbrella of the Royal Garrison Artillery, the Argyll Mountain Battery was sent to Salonika due to the mountainous conditions there, a number of their OfFicer trained at the signalling school at Dalkeith, Midlothian prior to their departure.

The reason I asked about Glasgow was the HLI was a Glasgow based regiment despite their 'Highland' pedigree. However the Artillery recruited from all over

Your grandfather is buried in this cemetery.

Greece

The town of Sarigol is a village some 40 kilometres north of the town of Thessalonika, in the direction of Lake Doiran or Kilkis town of Kriston. The cemetery is 3 kilometres out of the village and is close to the Civil Cemetery set in farmland, but it is signposted and visible from the road.

Historical Information: From April to June 1917, the 35th Casualty Clearing Station was at Sarigol. It was replaced by the 21st Stationary Hospital, which remained until December 1918. From these two hospitals, 150 burials were made in the cemetery, many of them men who had been wounded in the Allied attack on the Grand-Couronne and Pip Ridge in April-May 1917, and September 1918. In February 1921, 560 graves were brought into Sarigol from Janes Military Cemetery, a few miles to the north, and serving the same front. The cemetery at Janes was on low ground, and, under the normal conditions of this region, it was found difficult to approach and almost impossible to maintain in good order. With a few exceptions, the burials were made from 31st Casualty Clearing Station between August 1916 and October 1918. Sarigol Military Cemetery now contains 682 Commonwealth burials of the First World War and 29 war graves of other nationalities.

Many men died of illness in Salonika (Greece) from Pnuemonia and the like due to the unforgiving winter weather.

You can download your Grandad's medal card from the National archives for £3.50 if you follow this link

John

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Although when formed in 1908 as part of 1st Lanarkshire RGA, the 4th Lowland Howitzer Bde RFA TF became thus in 1914 on formation of a second line unit with headquarters in Glasgow. The Brigade was initially numbered as 262 Brigade RFA TF in May 1916, subsequently becoming 263 brigade in Sept 1916.

262 Bde arrived in Alexandria in 11/3/1916. on route to Gallipoli with 52 Div.

Attached a sample recruitment poster for them c 1910 with info on what Andrew McIndoe as a drivers would be paid etc they were disbanded in Dec 1916

The 4th Argyll and Bute Mountain bde RGA TF was also in Gallipoli in 1915, and then Macedonia in 1916. Only his service record may confirm the exact dates and order of his service, but the mountain brigade has surviving war diaries covering 1916 at WO95/4800. There is also one for their amn col in the same box file (as he was a driver).. 262 Bde’s diary does not cover the relevant timescale.

Regards Paul

post-9366-1171967169.jpg

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Would it have been normal for someone like my Grandfather in the TF to have served in two different Artiilery units i.e. the 4th lowland howitzer battery or brigade and then the 4th Highland Mountain Brigade Argyll battery? Granddad was from Glasgow. This has been very confusing .

Hi Mac, it's like magic isn't. Post a question and up come the answers. It never ceases to amaze me. Watch out. You will only have to stay on the Forum for a short time to become hooked like the rest of us.

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My Thanks to you old Vets who are helping me understand how one joined the TF . I am quickly getting addicted to the subject and the forum. I am so sad that my father who was only seven at his fathers passing knew so little of his fathers service. I have have just found recently of his Gallipoli service. I am so thankful to those who have responded.

Mac

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I suggested to Mac that he join the forum and ask away and you folks have, as usual, filled the bill. Great stuff. Here are some questions that remain unanswered.

Driver Macindoe died in December 1916 in Salonika, only 4 months after the Argyll Mountain Battery and the 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade arrived there. Yet, he was assigned a six digit 'new' TF number. Weren't they initially issued in March 1917?

The mechanics of his transfer from 4th Lowland (Howitzer) Brigade, RFA, to 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade, RGA, remain a mystery and may remain so until his service records (if they exist) are consulted. Both Brigades were in Salonika and, presumably, Egypt until August 1916 when the 4th Highland was shipped to Salonika for the remainder of the war. One would assume that he may been sick or wounded from either Gallipoli or Egypt, but that would, also presumably, have come after a transfer as they wouldn't have transferred a wounded or sick man into an active combat unit - would they? Was the 4th Lowland dissolved?

I have the War Diaries of the 4th HMB and the Argyll Battery for the date in questions and there is no mention of his death. That is unusual for these units. Clearly he was sent to the CCS and died there, and that might be why it isn't mentioned in the WD's, but there are other soldiers' deaths mentioned in the WD's from CCS' and Stationary Hospitals - OR's.

Any suggestions?

Mike Morrison

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