7th Royal Irish Rifles - Buttevant

[IanR]

I am researching the history of the 7th Bn, Royal Irish Rifles. Can anyone supply any information on their time training in Ireland - particularily with regard to their time from March 1915, when I believe they were near Buttevant or Ballyhooly. Any information on this area, and the army activities there would be welcome.

Also I believe they left in September for Blackdown Barracks near Aldershot - but I am not sure of the actual date of departure.

For anyone who might be interested, I have a copy of the Battalion War Diary, from Dec 15 to Oct 17.

Thanks in advance

[Patrick ODwyer]

My wife's grandfather Private (Rfn) Matthew Laverty was indeed in Buttevant with the Battaion in 1915. We tried to find the site of the camp last year. I believe it is on an old estate about seven miles from the town but we found no one at home. The Catholic church in the town has a soldier's gallery for those coming into mass on Sunday. This battalion had a large number of Catholics even though it came from the North. One member of the Regiment is buried in the churchyard there. We would love to hear more of your studies.

[Martin B]

Ian and Patrick,

I travelled to Buttevant a couple of years ago to visit the grave of 534366 Pte. A J Wicks, 10th (Prince Of Wales's Own Royal) Hussars in the cemetery at St John's Church Of Ireland Church in the town. He was killed in a training accident on October 2nd 1920.

Do either of you know what sort of camp or training facility existed at Buttevant during the war and in the years leading to partition ?

Any info would be extremely welcome.

[Patrick ODwyer]

Martin

I understand that there was some kind of cavalry barracks at Buttevant even prior to the war and it survived until after independence when it was destoyed by the IRA, or it may have been just some locals. This barracks I was told was fairly near the town.

There was also an Artillery Field (If I have the name right) by the right of the small bridge on the way East out of the town. During the war and about seven miles north and east from the town there was a large hutted area for troops. Where, I think, the infantry was. Ian thought this might be the Listowel estate. I tried to visit it but no one was at home and of course the huts are long gone. You can see how vague all of this sounds. There is supposed to be a man in the town main street who knows a lot more. The Parish Priest may be able to put you in touch.

This part of Cork was quite a military area I understand even before the war.

I hope this is of some help.

[Patrick ODwyer]

I think that should be Battery Park on reflection

Patrick

[Martin B]

Patrick,

Many thanks for the info.

During my trip to Buttevant we had to ask in a small shop on the main street where St John's was. We found it at the end of a narrow track, guarded by a particularly unpleasent alsation. The church and its cemetery are derelict.

There are about half a dozen British soldiers buried there. All have CWGC headstones except the 10th Hussar who had a large private stone bearing the Regimental crest.

Best wishes for the coming season to you and your team at HHQ (N) KRH.

Martin

[Patrick ODwyer]

Ian

The 7th RIR man buried in the Catholic cemetery is John Wilson, who died on 21 August 1915.

Martin

Thanks for good wishes. I am not in the KRH myself (grandfather was in 14th Hussars and 20th Hussars) but I am in contact with a few of them re: my research.

Patrick

[Patrick ODwyer]

The site of the Camp outside Buttevant was at a place called Ballyvoneir.

My wife's grandfather, 7th RIR, left Buttevant for Aldershot in September 1915 and arrived in France on 22 December 1915.

[IanR]

Patrick / Martin

Thanks for all of the info. Sorry I have not responded quicker - I have been out of touch for a few days.

From the little info I have on Buttevant, it seems clear that it was a long standing British Army location, which I guess must have expanded considerably to cope with the influx of units during 1915. I believe that the 48th Brigade, the parent formation of the 7th RIR was headquartered there at this time. With regard to their departure date, I have discovered that they left on the 9th Sept for Aldershot.

Patrick - As I said in my email to you, my principle interest in this unit is the fact that a company of Jerseymen served with them and this is where I live. With regard to that, the name of John Wilson doesn't tally with my records - I have a Jerseyman called Albert Richards, who died on the 11th May, buried in St Johns.

Ian

[Guest lanioheck]

Ian

I am also interested in researching the history of the Jersey contingent of the 7th RIR.

My great Uncle was Roy Oliver Binet and I have a copy of two mentions in dispatches. One when he was a corporal from the Brigade Commander Irish Brigade relating to 2nd July 1916 and one from 33rd Division for him as a 2nd lieut on 12/13th October 1918. i know he also recieved the Military Cross but have not yet managed to get down to do the research. Any info about what the he was doing on those days would be appreciated. Maybe you could suggest how I could get a copy of the diary for myself?

Thanks for any info

Paul

[Ulsterlad]

I am researching the history of the 7th Bn, Royal Irish Rifles. ....................................................

For anyone who might be interested, I have a copy of the Battalion War Diary, from Dec 15 to Oct 17.

Hi everyone, first time poster.

Dear Ian, one of my great-grand uncles was kia serving with the 7th Bn RIR during April 1916. (Joseph Lindsay 5347 kia 2nd April '16)

Do you still have access to the Battalion War Diary?

I would be very interested in hearing / reading about events around the end of March / start of April 1916.

Kind Regards.

[IanR]

Hello

Yes I do. During this general period the Battalion was in the Loos sector of the Front, rotating between front line, brigade reserve and divisional reserve duties. They had first gone into the trenches at the end of 1915. For the first three months they spent time between the trenches and the rear area carrying out further training. By April however the training was over and the were fully into the routine of trench life.

On 2 April specifically, they were in trenches in front of Hulluch. The War Diar doesn't note any deaths on that that day, but then it is very vague generally on casulaties.

I hope this helps. My interest specifically is on a contingent of Jerseymen who served as Company D (the Jersey Company) of 7th RIR. However, in researching and writing their history, I have obviously covered much of that of the Battalion. DOn't hesitate to contact me if you want anything more.

Ian

[Ulsterlad]

Dear Ian, thank you very much for this quick reply. The information is very useful.

Kind Regards.

[Desmond7]

From Cyril Fall's history of the First seven btns of the R Ir Rifles in WW1. I have cut and pasted refs to the 7th Btn ... best of luck.

1. - FORMATION OF 6TH AND 7TH BATTALIONS.

WHILE the "Old Army" was dying in Flanders, while the 2nd Battalion as it originally existed was passing away in the flat country about La Bassée, while the Reserve battalions were hastily drilling men to fill the terrible gaps in its ranks, two new battalions were formed to take their places in the new armies which, under Lord Kitchener's inspiration, were turning these islands into an armed camp.

The 6th (Service) Battalion Royal Irish Rifles was the first to be formed and the first in the field. It was in the 29th Brigade of the 10th (Irish) Division. It was formed in Dublin, at Wellington Barracks, in the last ten days of August, 1914, the other battalions in the Brigade being the 5th Royal Irish, the 5th Connaught Rangers, and the 6th Leinster Regiment. In September it moved to Fermoy for a month's training, returning to Dublin, to the Royal Barracks, in October. Four months were passed in the city. The 10th Division, being intended for early service overseas, was on the whole better treated in the matter of equipment than the other Irish Divisions, the 16th and the 36th (Ulster), then in training in the country. February, March and April saw the 29th Brigade at the Curragh, a period of field work succeeding one upon " the square."

At the end of April it was transferred to New Park Camp, in Hacked Park, Basingstoke. There training became intensive, musketry being carried out at Aldershot. On May 28th H.M. the King, and on June 1st Lord Kitchener, reviewed the 10th Division in Hackwood Park. On July 6th the 6th Royal Irish Rifles left Basingstoke for embarkation at Liverpool, its destination being in the first place Alexandria, and then the Gallipoli Peninsula.

The 7th (Service) Battalion Royal Irish Rifles, formed in Belfast in September, 1914, was in the 48th Brigade, 16th (Irish) Division. It spent practically the first year of its existence at Mallow, Co. Cork, and Ballyvonare Camp, where it had excellent training-ground in the Ballyhoura Mountains. Recruiting was none too rapid even in those days for this, the second of the three Irish Divisions, and the Battalion was glad to receive a company of Jerseymen, 6 officers and 225 other ranks, in March, 1915. These men belonged to the Jersey Militia, and were well trained. As fifty per cent of them spoke French, it can easily be imagined that they were useful in France, where they sang French songs on the march, to the astonishment of the country-folk.

From mid-June to mid-August, 1915, the Battalion was under canvas at Ballyhooley, on the banks of the Blackwater, near Lord Listowel's seat. It was very fit and well trained when, in September, 1915, it left Ireland for Aldershot. Being at the heart of military life meant that it had many inspections to undergo in the succeeding weeks. On December 2nd the 16th Division was inspected by H.M. the Queen, and before it left the country Cardinal Bourne gave an impressive address to the Roman Catholics, who were in a great majority.

On December 19th the Battalion entrained at Farnborough for Southampton, disembarking next day at Havre and going into camp.

III. - THE 7TH Battalion.

We must now turn to a new legion, one of the New Army battalions, the 7th. As has already been recorded, it was in the 48th Infantry Brigade., the other battalions in which were the 8th and 9th Royal Dublin Fusiliers and the 9th Royal Munster Fusiliers.

On December 19th the 7th Battalion left Blackdown for Southampton. It embarked at 4.30 p.m., and arrived at Havre at 7.30 a.m. next morning. It missed - fortunately, perhaps, for its early impressions of France - the usual night in a rest camp, and entrained that evening for Fouguereuil, in the coal-mining area. "A" and "B" Companies marched to Noeux-les-Mines, and "C" and "D" to Houchin. These villages of the mining country were incredibly ugly, but scenic beauty was not the first demand of troops in war-time, and they had compensations. Noeux-les-Mines, in particular, was, whatever officers might think of it, one of the most favoured billets in France from the point of view of the rank and file. It had, to begin with, the best bathing facilities; on the western front - the hot baths attached to the mines. It was liberally supplied with estaminets and eating-houses, where eggs and fried potatoes could be obtained, with other more dubious attractions.

From the 23rd onwards the 48th Brigade was attached to the 1st Division for instruction. The first Christmas on active service came and went before the Battalion had seen the front line, or in any way "found its feet." On the 29th "A" and "B" Companies moved up to Philosophe, to the old British front and support lines, where they had graduated instruction in the holding of trenches.

IV. - THE 7TH BATTALION AND THE APRIL GAS ATTACKS.

The 7th Battalion, as has been stated, was already in France at the beginning of 1916, but its active service does not really start till then. Its first casualty, in fact, occurred on New Year's Day, when its transport officer. Lieutenant J. P. Farrelly, was wounded near Hulluch. Throughout January it carried out steady training. On the 20th it lined the road in honour of a visit from General Joffre. On the 28th, when it was at Hesdingeuil, near Béthune, Major S. G. Francis, D.S.O., West Yorkshire Regiment, took command in succession to Lieut.-Colonel Hartley. He remained with the Battalion throughout its career, till it was disbanded two years later, when his fine service was rewarded with the command of a brigade.

On February 18th the Battalion moved to Sailly Labourse, being now attached to the 12th Division, and next day its companies began entering the trenches, each being attached to a battalion of the 36th Brigade. On the 25th it took over for the first time a sector of its own, not far from the Hohenzollern Redoubt, and that night got its two first prisoners, a couple of Bavarians who surrendered to a patrol. After this first taste of the trenches it moved back to billets at Ham-en-Artois, returning to the line after a month's further training, especially in bombing, in front' of Hulluch. The very night, March 26th, on which it entered the trenches, the enemy blew two mines, accompanied by a heavy bombardment. Our Lewis-gun fire prevented him from occupying the craters, the near lips of which were eventually occupied and consolidated by our bombers, The Battalion came very lightly out of this affair, with no more than four casualties.

The Battalion was not in the trenches when there occurred one of the most serious gas attacks made by the enemy since the Second Battle of Ypres. The gas was released upon a wide frontage, on the front of the 8th Dublins and the right of the 49th Brigade, at 4.30 a.m. on April 27th. The "sack" gas helmets of those days were very inferior to the type evolved later, and casualties were numerous. It was, however, the tremendous bombardment, which knocked to pieces our front trench upon a front of upwards of half a mile, that caused most loss. An hour after the release of the gas the Germans entered the line at several points, but were ejected after heavy fighting, in which the 7th Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, of the 49th Brigade, particularly distinguished itself. The 7th Royal Irish Rifles sent up one company to the 8th Dublins in front line, and another to the 9th Dublins in support, with fifty bombers. The losses in the 48th Brigade were about two hundred, but heavier in the 49th.

Two days later the performance was repeated. This time there was no infantry attack upon the Brigade's front, and those upon that of the 49th Brigade never reached our trenches, The losses in the 48th Brigade were huge for an affair of trench warfare - 100 killed and 180 wounded or gassed. It is doubtful, however, if the Germans got any profit out of this later venture. In 'the first place, some of the gas blew back over their

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SHORTAGE OF RECRUITS FOR 16TH DIVISION

lines, and their ambulances were afterwards seen to be hard at work. In the second, large bodies were caught by machine-gun fire and the barrage of the artillery covering the 49th Brigade and dispersed with loss. Second-Lieutenant Whitford was killed on this occasion.

There is little to record of the next two months, which were passed in the same area, except that the difficulty of obtaining recruits for battalions of the 16th Division began to make itself felt within six months of its arrival in France. At the end of May the 9th Munster Fusiliers was disbanded to provide drafts for other battalions, and replaced by the 1st Battalion. There were very few casualties, the only loss in officers being 2nd-Lieutenants P. Holden and F. S. M'Carthy [McCarthy] wounded. The Division remained in this region after the opening of the Somme battle, in the early stages of which it was not engaged.

In the following chapter we shall see that all three battalions, 1st, 2nd, and 7th, were in action in that battle within the first ten weeks.

V. - THE BATTLE OF GINCHY.

The 7th Battalion was in the Hulluch area throughout the months of July and August. The line, after the great gas attacks, was generally quiet, and casualties comparatively few. On the night of July 31st there was a curious incident. A raid was attempted by the Battalion, without success. The enemy's wire was found to be insufficiently cut. After an effort to penetrate it by means of its wire-cutters, the raiding party returned to our trenches. A few minutes later the enemy raided in his turn. If, as seems probable, this raid was made in retaliation and organized on the spur of the moment, it was creditable to the German battalion or company concerned. A raid carried out immediately after the failure of one by the other side has advantages so obvious that the uninitiated may wonder why it was not more often attempted. As a fact, the most successful raids were generally those prepared for weeks in advance, over "dummy" trenches, reproduced from aeroplane photographs of the trenches to be attacked, worked to a strict time-table, with every man trained to carry out exactly and without hesitation his particular part of the programme. Raids hurriedly improvised often ended in hopeless confusion, the men losing their way in the dark, and being comparatively helpless when once out of the control of their officers and non-commissioned officers. Among Colonial troops, who had a highly developed personal initiative, such raids were commoner and frequently successful. The Australians, the country-dwellers among whom had an extraordinary sense of direction and power of memorizing the features of ground seen in daylight, practised them frequently, though for the most part at a period later than this; asking no more of their artillery than that it should not shoot upon such-and-such trenches over such-and-such a period.

In this case the Royal Irish Rifles were nearly caught napping. Somewhat imprudently, the majority of the officers in the front line had gone back to report to the Commanding Officer at Battalion Headquarters upon their attempted raid. The men themselves, showing, for young troops, very creditable presence of mind, saved the situation. When the sentries in the saps fell back to the front line trench to give warning of what was coming, bombing squads, formed under non-commissioned officers, rushed into position to cover these saps. Showers of bombs kept the enemy from pushing down them into the main trench. By the time supports had moved up from the second line he was gone. Our losses were 4 killed and 6 wounded, and the enemy took no prisoners. One officer was wounded during August 2nd-Lieutenant Macnamara.

On August 24th the 48th Brigade was relieved by a brigade of the 32nd Division, which had had heavy losses on the Somme. After a few days' rest it entrained for the

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GINCHY: SEPTEMBER 9TH [ 1916 ]

battle area, detraining at Longueau on the 30th and marching to Corbie, on the Somme River. Thence it moved slowly forward to the ruined village of Guillemont, where the 7th Royal Irish Rifles relieved two battalions of the 47th Brigade, in the support line. The village had been taken but four days earlier, as part of the series of attacks which had advanced our line at this latitude to a point nearly six miles from the original front. To the north-east was the village of Ginchy, already taken but lost to a German counter-attack. It was now be attacked by the 16th Division, in conjunction with other attacks upon the southern portion of the British battle-front.

For three days the Battalion remained in the village, consolidating it with the aid of the Engineers. There was no shelter but a few dug-outs, in which in the darkness men sometimes happened upon strange and grisly house-mates, and the shelling was very heavy. Casualties were numerous. On the night of the 6th the Battalion, though holding the support line, sent forward three strong patrols to locate the enemy's position at Ginchy. They were fired upon, and Lieutenants Morgan and Williams were killed. Next evening the Battalion took over the front, which was about half-way between the two villages.

What the war diaries, ever optimistic, knew as the" accommodation," consisted in this case of shell-holes, sometimes linked together by little trenches. The night of the 8th was spent in digging assembly trenches. At this point Germans and British were widely separated, and the diggers, moving forward quietly in the darkness, were enabled to tape out and dig their front line nearly two hundred yards in front of the position held, thus giving themselves so much shorter distance to go in the attack. They dug before morning light four successive lines, forty yards apart, each capable of holding four platoons, west of the sunken road between Guillemont and Ginchy, while the men of the 1st Munsters were employed on the same task east of the road. They then took up their assembly positions, four companies in line, from right to left "B," A," " C," and " D," each in four waves on a frontage of a single platoon. Though the attack was not to take place till late in the afternoon of the following day, it was obvious that no movement would be possible after dawn.

The 16th Division was attacking with the 47th Brigade on the right and the 48th on the left, the latter having the village of Ginchy as its objective, the boundary between the two being at the " jumping-off line," the Hardecourt - Ginchy road. The boundary between the 48th Brigade's two first-line battalions was, as has been stated, the Guillemont - Ginchy road. The experience of early defeats in this battle had taught the advisability of short objectives, and in this case, though the final line beyond Ginchy was not more than a thousand yards from the assembly trenches, the attack was to be made by four battalions, two" leap-frogging " the two in the lead upon the first objective, the road running from Delville Wood to the middle of the village. The second two battalions were to pass through the leaders at "zero" plus forty minutes. The attack was to be made by the 1st Munsters and 7th Royal Irish Rifles in front line, the 8th and 9th Dublins in second, named from right to left in each case.

"Zero" was fixed for 4.45 p.m. The intention was presumably to vary the usual dawn attack which was expected by the enemy. Another advantage was that, with a short objective, there would be just time for some consolidation before dusk, and very little for an organized German counter-attack. Such were the advantages of the scheme, and in other parts of the front they may not have been balanced by serious hazards. In the case of the 48th Brigade, and above all of the 7th Royal Irish Rifles, the plan caused very heavy loss of life, and might easily have led to a disastrous failure of the

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THE ROYAL IRISH RIFLES IN THE GREAT WAR

attack. The assembly trenches were only too visible to the German observation officers, and they had a good nine hours of daylight to pound them with their guns. It is easy to imagine that losses were high. But there was loss from a reason less creditable to the authorities in rear.

At 7.55 a.m. the Brigade received a report from the Royal Irish Rifles, and soon afterwards one of a like tenor from the Munsters, that our artillery was bursting shells in their front line and causing heavy casualties. Apparently the account of these battalions having gone forward two hundred yards to dig their assembly trenches had not reached all the batteries of the numerous artillery brigades supporting the attack, or had not been understood. According to the Brigade's report, it was batteries of the Guards' Divisional Artillery and the 61st Brigade R.F.A. that caused the trouble.

However this may be, what with the bombardments of the enemy and our own side, Colonel Francis reported to his brigadier, at 2 p.m., that his battalion, which had gone into action somewhat weak, had not much more than a hundred and fifty bayonets for the assault. As there was grave doubt whether this force would suffice to take the first objective, the 48th Brigade asked for further troops, and was given the 7th Royal Irish Fusiliers, of the 49th Brigade. To bring this battalion up into line there was none too much time, while from the moment it left the cover of Guillemont it was exposed to heavy fire. Largely through the skill and energy of its commanding officer, it was in its place in time, behind the Royal Irish Rifles. There were thus five battalions under the command of the General Officer Commanding 48th Brigade to carry out the assault.

At "zero" the waves went forward, energy and dash unabated by the dreadful pounding of the day and the toil of the preceding night. The Riflemen, backed up by the Royal Irish Fusiliers on the left, the Munsters on the right, reached the German front line, on the outskirts of the village, and took it in a moment, killing or taking prisoner most of the Germans in it, though a handful managed to escape and run back to the second line. The "going" being fairly sound, Stokes mortars of the 48th Light Trench Mortar Battery arrived with the men of the Royal Irish Rifles, and very useful they proved. Just behind the German front line a stout-hearted officer had raffled a party of forty men, possessed of one or two light machine guns, which prepared to dispute the second advance. The mortars were withdrawn a little, set up in shell-holes, from which their rapid fire of small shells was opened over the heads of the infantry. In a few minutes the whole German party surrendered to the latter. The range of the Stokes was then lengthened to aid the troops about to pass through to the second objective.

Punctually at 5.25 p.m. the 9th Dublins came through. But, as happened not seldom in such cases, when men's blood was up and they were excited by a preliminary success, a number of the Riflemen could not be held by the few officers remaining, and went forward with the Dublins, through the village, to the second objective, which was also taken. They even went beyond the objective. This was risky, as the attack had not gone too well elsewhere, and the advance had been checked east of Delville Wood, A subaltern officer of the 7th Royal Irish Rifles, whose name is not recorded, brought back his own men and the Dublins to the proper line. The former were then led back to the first objective, and the work of consolidation set in hand. Colonel Francis had been knocked down by a shell-burst and severely shaken. Lieut.-Colonel E. Bellingham, the officer commanding the 8th Dublin Fusiliers, the supporting battalion on the right, accomplished very fine work in the organization of the whole line. By midnight the village was in a sound state of defence. Half an hour later what remained of the Battalion

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LOSSES AT GINCHY [ 1916 ]

was relieved, staggered back to Carnoy, was shipped into motor-buses and taken to the Happy Valley, near Albert, where the men lay down and slept, and marched next day to the comfort of Corbie.

The losses in this affair were enormous. Those of the 48th Brigade amounted to fourteen hundred, about half its infantry strength in going into action. The Battalion had killed, Major Cairnes and 2nd-Lieutenant Capper; missing, believed killed, and-Lieutenant Keown; wounded, Major Lash, Captain Taggart, 2nd-Lieutenants Bayham (who died soon afterwards), Devereux and Boyle. Of other ranks, 39 were killed and 260 wounded and missing. A large proportion of this loss was, of course, due to the terrible bombardment from dawn to the hour of the assault. The Battalion had fought with hereditary Irish dash. The success of the 16th Division on this occasion was the more creditable in that upon the rest of the front the attack failed. To complete the work begun by it was needed one of the greatest attacks of the whole Somme battle, when tanks were employed for the first time.

A few days of rest followed, but hardly had men emerged from that strange and merciful trance which seems to follow such experiences, when they were moved back by bus to Longpré and entrained for the north. They reached Godewaersvelde on the afternoon of September 21st, and marched to billets at La Clytte, a mile and a half north of Kemmel Hill. On the evening of the 23rd they relieved Canadian troops in the neighbourhood of Vierstraat, at the southern corner of the Ypres Salient.

[Desmond7]

BTW this history can be downloaded in its entirety (only takes a few seconds) if you go to

http://www.geocities.com/rurmuseum/host.html

[Ulsterlad]

Desmond, thanks for posting this history and link.

Kind Regards.

[gmslewis]

Hello there!

I wonder if you can help me, is there any mention in the War Diary for the 7th Irish Rifles of a Corporal Arthur (or A) Sims?

Thanks a lot!

Gareth

[Guest smcgiff]

Re Buttevant Barracks etc.

The Barrack remains are where the sports pitch (GAA pitch) is now (the former flat parade ground makes it one of the best pitches in Cork) about half a mile from Main street, at the end of the aptly named Military road (This is where the officers lived). As I said there's not much left besides the surrounding wall. It was destroyed during the Irish Civil War.

However, you don't need to travel to Buttevant to see the perimeter wall. At the start of the Ken Loach movie - "Wind that shakes the Barley" you'll see a troop of soldiers walking down a wide street with cottages on the right and a large brick wall on the left. The brick wall is the perimeter fence of the old barracks.

Also, the old red brick soldiers' quarters (still called The Quarters today) are still mostly occupied as council houses.

Image of barracks in better days... http://oldirishimages.com/towns%20and%20vi...evant/CK103.jpg

As for the COI church - This is (or was up to approx 10 years ago) still in use once a month. You do need to drive past a particularly nasty dog (or should that be owner) belonged to a local solicitor who doesn't like the fact a right-of-way goes past his stately home.

There are quite a few soldier graves, one of which has a date very close to the end of WWI. From memory one of the soldiers was called Piggott (same as the famous jockey). This church would be more famous for being the church from where the first ever steeple chase took place back in 1752 to another church approx 5 miles away in Doneraile.

[ausdiver]

Hi Desmond,

Thanks for this, My Great Uncle was one of the few who did not make it through this battle, he was a member of "A" Coy. 7th Bn., Royal Irish Fusiliers. He was Private FRANCIS WEBB.

I found his grave certificate on CWGC http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=819976 but your information has helped fill in a lot of gaps as to just what happened. My family did not really know what had happened to him, but they there was talk that he was only 16 when he died, as his mother had written to the war office at the time to say this, but the response she got back was a telegram of his death. Not sure if this was true though.

Many thanks again for this.

[hcoid]

Desmond, thanks for posting this history and link.

Kind Regards.

Or a mention of Lance Corporal James Coid 5314 killed 29/04/1916 no grave.

[ausdiver]

Hi Desmond,

Thanks for this, My Great Uncle was one of the few who did not make it through this battle, he was a member of "A" Coy. 7th Bn., Royal Irish Fusiliers. He was Private FRANCIS WEBB.

I found his grave certificate on CWGC http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=819976 but your information has helped fill in a lot of gaps as to just what happened. My family did not really know what had happened to him, but they there was talk that he was only 16 when he died, as his mother had written to the war office at the time to say this, but the response she got back was a telegram of his death. Not sure if this was true though.

Many thanks again for this.

Just found out yesterday from the Ireland Census 1911 My great uncle's age, he was 16 when he joined up and 17 when he died.

[IanR]

Hello

Having noticed that this threat I started back in 2003 remains is still going, for anyone interested in 7th Royal Irish Rifles a new book has recently been published on the Jersey Company which served with this unit from March 1915 to November 1917. Details on the Company and the book can be found here:

The Jersey Company

On the subject of Buttevant, is anyone aware of a local history society that may be able to help provide more information on the area during the war?

Thanks

Ian

[staunton]

Hello

Having noticed that this threat I started back in 2003 remains is still going, for anyone interested in 7th Royal Irish Rifles a new book has recently been published on the Jersey Company which served with this unit from March 1915 to November 1917. Details on the Company and the book can be found here:

The Jersey Company

On the subject of Buttevant, is anyone aware of a local history society that may be able to help provide more information on the area during the war?

Thanks

Ian

Glad to see the Jersey Coy is now covered by a history

Deneys Reitz's Trekking On states he was briefly o/c 7RIR at the time of their disbandment and has some interesting feedback at their reaction re transfer from 16th (Irish) to to 36th (Ulster) Div prior to amalgamation with 2RIR

The 7RIR have also inspired a re-enactment unit.... http://www.geocities.com/royalirishrifles/

[Ian McFarland]

Glad to see the Jersey Coy is now covered by a history

Deneys Reitz's Trekking On states he was briefly o/c 7RIR at the time of their disbandment and has some interesting feedback at their reaction re transfer from 16th (Irish) to to 36th (Ulster) Div prior to amalgamation with 2RIR

The 7RIR have also inspired a re-enactment unit.... http://www.geocities.com/royalirishrifles/

My Great-Grandfather was Walter Culbert (s/n 570541) from Ballygowan St. Belfast. He was with the 7th and eventually rose to the rank of Sgt. He had a SIW on 31/12/1916 and subsequently was in a Prisoner camp although my mother who remembers him always said he was "in charge" of prisoners - could it be he was a prisoner? He was also charged with drunkeness on 2 occasions.

Any info or where I can get more info would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[geoffwhaley]

Can anyone help? Family research has thrown up Samuel Tyndall, whose Medal Card says KIA. Further research says he died August 1917 in France. He was a Private with 7th Bn RIR. The conundrum is that there is no record of him on the Commonwealth War Graves site, which, I understand is almost unheard of. Is there a story here? Thanks in hope.