Memorials and remembrance

[Clive Maier]

Great War remembrance in the UK seems to have been almost exclusively identified with religious bodies and practices. During the war, churches held war-related services at which the dead and survivors were often named, and they were associated with war shrines, although not always in favour of them. After the war, churches were involved with war memorial committees, memorial unveilings and dedications, and indeed were often the site of memorials. All this means that church records – parish magazines, letters, committee minutes and so on – should be a valuable source for the Great War historian.

I wonder if pals can offer any guidance or advice on tracing these records? Are they likely to have survived? If so, would they still be held by the individual church or are they more likely to have been gathered in diocesan or county archives? Or is it simply not possible to generalise?

I find it is not easy to check on individual churches. Most are locked most of the time, many do not have an office, and some don’t even offer a telephone number. As an atheist, I feel more than a little diffident about hanging around for the end of a service, then rushing forward to doorstep the minister, especially as s/he is probably in a hurry to do it all over again at another church. I am concerned that my interest in the records, coupled with my rejection of the faith, might give offence. I also worry that the minister may have been pestered for the same information over and over again.

I would welcome the advice and experiences of pals.

[Terry Denham]

Clive

I have had extensive experience of using church records in my home county of Sussex (or rather the two counties of East & West Sussex).

The majority of ecclesiastical parish records are now held at county archive offices. However, a substantial number of churches still hold their own records.

I would suggest contacting the county archive and ask for a list of the parishes they hold. The rest will be with the churches. This process proved very successful in Sussex.

Be careful not to confuse the ecclesiastical parish with the civil parish. They are different organisations with different records and responsibilities. The church parish now only looks after church affairs and the civil parish is the lowest tier of local government. They are represented by the Parocial Church Council (ecclesiatical) and the Parish Council (civil).

They were often both involved in memorial erection etc and so you should search both sets of records. Civil records of the WW1 period are usually held in the county archives but can also still be with the Parish Clerk at the Parish Council office.

OK. I confess. I am chairman of the local Parish Council for my sins.

[Terry Denham]

I forgot to say that searching records in county archives is free but you have to have a reader's ticket (at least in Sussex).

However, vicars are entitled to charge for searches of the records they hold. Some do charge and some don't. When I checked records held in about thirty churches in Sussex only three vicars asked for payment - which was set at about £12 then by church statute. One vicar asked for two payments as he looked after two churches.

[Sue Light]

Clive

I have found that a great many churches were producing parish magazines or newsletters during the war, but they were often reduced to a single ‘flyer.’ I haven’t had much luck in tracing many of these, but any that have survived seem to be lodged with the County Record Office [West Sussex in my case]. My local newspapers were quite good at reporting on the proceedings of Parish Council meetings, and post war these seemed to contain some very explicit details of what the Memorial Committee got up to – nearly coming to fisticuffs on occasions, and also of spending, and unveiling and dedication ceremonies. I’ve been lucky with my latest work in Steyning, inasmuch as they have a wonderful museum – small but perfectly formed, and have a fairly complete run of parish magazines from 1919 onwards, copies of which have also been bound for the Record Office and Worthing local studies library. As well as the details of the yearly memorial and remembrance services, it is possible to trace other aspects of the memorial process – the following three extracts show [as an example] the length of time taken for the erection of the CWGC stones in the churchyard. I find them really fascinating snippets of what was actually going on in the communities at that time:

1925

Our War Graves

The Vicar has made arrangements with the War Graves Commission for the erection of a memorial stone on each of the graves of the five soldiers and the sailor who were buried in out Churchyard during or immediately after the War. The memorials will be of Portland stone with the regimental or other badge and a suitable inscription.

July 1928

War Grave Memorials

About three years ago we stated that the Vicar had arranged with the Imperial War Graves Commission for the erection of memorial stones on the five soldiers’ graves in our churchyard. He has now been informed that these stones will soon be erected.

May 1929

Soldiers’ Graves

The Imperial War Graves Commission has now erected the memorials on the soldiers’ graves in our churchyard. There are five of them – one at the Lichgate, two near the Gatewick House gate, one close to the Gatewick Terrace gate, and the other near where the paths from these three gates intersect. The memorials are of Portland stone, and in design and size are similar to those erected in France and elsewhere. The graves in those war areas are perfectly flat, and the Commissioners in erecting these memorials in our churchyard have stipulated that these graves of ours are to be like those overseas, and that therefore the mound in each case must be levelled, and the actual grave-space covered only with turf, which is to be kept closely cut. We shall be glad if relatives will, therefore, kindly arrange at once with our Clerk, Mr. G. Phillips, about the removal of the mounds, and consult him as to the disposal of the wooden crosses which until now have marked these graves.

Regards - Sue

[Cynthia]

Clive,

I had tremendous good luck with St. Nicholas Church in Godstone, Surrey. They had copies of all their Parish Magazines going back to the mid-1850s! As SueL said, the accounts of the War Memorial Committee meetings are a real window back in time. One of the things I found out is that the person who was primarily responsible for starting the Committee in Godstone was Charlie Stark, Robert Stark's father.

SueL is also correct when she says that the War copies are pretty thin, but there were mentions of individuals and in some cases, remembrances written. Having been to Colindale, I was able to correlate some of the information I found there with what I also found in the Parish Magazines.

County record offices may hold some of the records, but I found my information by making a lot of phone calls until I finally found the Vicar's name and phone number!

Cynthia

[Clive Maier]

Terry, Sue and Cynthia,

Many thanks for the advice. It does make sense to start with the county archive and then go on to any individual churches that are not in the archive. But are there no diocesan archives?

Am I being too sensitive about being an atheist? It is obviously not something I would thrust upon a minister but equally, if invited to a service I would not want to dissemble about it either.

[Terry Denham]

Clive

The diocese does not keep many general records in my experience due to cost. Records were deposited at the county archives.

A few churches, as I said, hold their own records - burial books etc. However, there may be exceptions - my experience is only of two counties.

[Doug Lewis]

Clive

I'm currently researching a memorial in St Mary's Church Bushbury Wolverhampton.

The secretary was very helpful,I wrote to her asking if they had the parish records that held any information on the memorial. The church hold all the parish records from 1914-23 all leather bound. I was invited to the church and spent a fruitfull day reading them,gaining a lot of information. The vicar also opened the church especially for me to look at and photgraph the memorial.

So there are some churches out there who see our research as useful and they didn't charge me a penny

Regards Doug

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Clive

I am a Christian. Whilst I hold firmly to my own beliefs I am also of the opinion that I should respect the views of others.

I would expect the minister to respect your views and deal with you on the basis of access to the records you seek. Your reasons for wishing to gain access to the records are honourable and I believe that respect for the service and sacrifice given by those you are researching can be given without a religious 'slant'.

Personally I would not be offended by your attendance at a service and equally I would not wish you to be uncomfortable in attending, although as a christian I would hope that you would and that something in the service might cause you to think again.

It always easy to put labels on people whether it be Christian, Muslim, Agnostic, Athiest et al.... I would much prefer to be able to call you a friend. Which I do.

Hope this helps.

Dave

[Greenwoodman]

I've never used church records, but have asked for access to churches quite a lot recently. Apart from my interest in the memorial/plaque, I've never been asked any questions about my religion or lack of it, and most ministers/church wardens seem only to happy to talk about the history of their church.

[j.r.f]

pals

As with most things the church is the custodian of any records it posseses.It has been my experiance that churches are usually very willing to share any information they do hold.We are however at a watershed at the moment.Many churches are closing and with the best will material is easily lost.In my case the only record that now exists to the war memorial to my ex-church is now in,what I think,a priceless piece of paper that was transcribed by a former incumbant.The stone memorial which was,in very good faith,stored in a local monumental masons yard which was bought up and used for building.Sufficient to say that,so far as is known,this stone no longer exists.I think the weight is heavy on us to make sure as much information as posible is collected and diseminated as far and wide as posible.We should send material to local records offices,libraries,memorial registers,etsc,etc.I feel we are smetimes guilty in keeping material to ourselves.

In the main if we aproach people with understanding and care.They will treat us in the same way.

Cheers.

JOHN.

[chris basey]

The majority of research invoving church registers that I have done has been at county record offices. However, where the records have been retained at the church I have invariably found the incumbent/church wardens co-operative. Occasionally I have been asked for a fee but, usually, when I have enquired I have been told ‘Please put something in the box, if you wish’.

Where thee are completed registers remaining in the custody of the church I have politely pointed out that they would be more secure and accessible if deposited at the County Record office. Smaller churches may still be using the same book that they started in 1883 so some transcribing may be in order.

With church closures and incumbents living distances from their churches I think all family/military historians should be pressing for all but current records to be deposited with the county archives.

I believe there was a case some years ago where a set of church registers was offered for sale at a collectors’ fair!!

[Clive Maier]

Thanks to everyone for all the help on this. My concern was that ministers might feel put upon. Anyway, I can sidestep that for the time being by starting with the county archive.