Dummy tanks

[Don Stainton]

I have seen photograph of a dummy tank constructed and used in 1918. Can anyone tell me whether there was a standard pattern for these dummy tanks or were they "local build"? Who was responsible for making them? What were they made of? How heavy were they? How many men were needed to get them into position?

Thanks for any help on this!

Don

[Andrew Upton]

I have seen photograph of a dummy tank constructed and used in 1918. Can anyone tell me whether there was a standard pattern for these dummy tanks or were they "local build"? Who was responsible for making them? What were they made of? How heavy were they? How many men were needed to get them into position?

Thanks for any help on this!

Don

Context is the key...

I know of at least two different types of dummy tank employed in WW1.

The first were used to train tank crews - these were "light" (read: still bl*ody heavy!) roughly shaped wood frames covered in canvas, which had little physical resemblance to real tanks and their practical value was negligible at best. I have read tales of these coming to inglorious ends (some falling off cliffs! - other being broken up for firewood!).

The second were static, dummy targets, basically the same construction but usually more highly detailed, designed to fool enemy observers.

Either way, both likely to be made locally out of wood, canvas, anything to hand. Wouldn't have needed to many men to move them about, but the more the merrier!

Hope this is of some help.

[Don Stainton]

Thanks Andrew.

I was after information on the ones used at the front to fool observers. I wonder if there was a pamphlett or instructions covering the manufacture of these - or whether it relied on local artistic talent?

Regards

Don

[Andrew Upton]

Thanks Andrew.

I was after information on the ones used at the front to fool observers. I wonder if there was a pamphlett or instructions covering the manufacture of these - or whether it relied on local artistic talent?

Regards

Don

Can't recall seeing anything like that, sorry!

[Gareth Davies]

Rather than start a new thread I wonder if I might modify this one as the title is spot on.  I have been reading about an action in September 1917 near Arras when a dummy tank built by 7th Field Company RE was used as a decoy.  I am really interested to find other accounts of dummy tanks being used in 1917.  

[MikeMeech]

45 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said:

Rather than start a new thread I wonder if I might modify this one as the title is spot on.  I have been reading about an action in September 1917 near Arras when a dummy tank built by 7th Field Company RE was used as a decoy.  I am really interested to find other accounts of dummy tanks being used in 1917.  

Hi

 

The book 'Conceal, Create, Confuse - Deception as a British Battlefield Tactic in the First World War' by Martin Davies, has various examples of use of 'Dummy Tanks' including  (page 138-139) in relation to the Battle of Cambrai, 1917, including that by 56th Division (not involved in the main attack) of IV Corps who:

 

"...kept up a Chinese Attack all day with artillery, dummy soldiers, canvas tanks and copious amounts of smoke."

 

Also, 16th and 3rd Divisions:

 

"...mounted attacks with dummy infantry and tanks behind a smoke screen.  These Chinese Attacks had the express aim of supporting the important attack by 9 Brigade against Bovis and Tunnel Trenches on the front between Bullecourt and the Sensee, in order to remove a salient."

 

I hope that is of use.

 

Mike

[Gareth Davies]

Thank you.

[DavidOwen]

IWM has some images here https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=dummy+tank&pageSize=15&filters[periodString][First+World+War]=on

 

David

[NigelS]

A bit earlier than '17 and relating to training (in both old & new technologies), The History of the London Rifle Brigade 1859 – 1919 has this for  the period July 6th – 3rd September 1916 for its 1st  battalion  (post involvement with the Gommecourt diversionary attack):

 

On 24th # orders were received for intensive training to begin at once, and the 56th Division heard that, with the Guards Division, it had been selected to make an attack in conjunction with tanks, which were to appear for the first time. From that time to 3rd September daily practices took place, occasionally with the tanks though generally with dummies, but the training and the orders were kept very secret, and special precautions were taken to prevent any information about the new engines of war leaking out to the enemy. In view of the large number of reinforcements which had not been initiated  into the attack with liquid fire, introduced so successfully by the Germans at Hooge, a special demonstration of that form of warfare was given during this period. Col. R. B. Campbell, the bayonet fighting expert, also lectured to the battalion in his own wonderful way, inspiring every man with thrilling hopes of the use he might be able to make of the weapon.

 

# August

 

NigelS

 

 

[Gareth Davies]

Thanks Nigel.

[Gunner Bailey]

I have some photos that were in an old family photo album which were taken at a public school open day where the Cadet Force had 2 wood and canvas tanks being carried around the rugby pitch. I did I think put them on this forum some years ago so may still be on the website.Sadly the whole album was undated but it was in the WW1 period section.

[Ron Clifton]

I suspect that the unit responsible for dummy tanks was the Special Works Park RE - which was responsible for various types of camouflage and extended the role even to its own name. Typically, the officers were artists and the other ranks were stage carpenters and the like.

 

One of their effective products was to string about 2000 yards of matting on poles over the front-line trenches, and paint a wide black line on it, so that enemy aircraft flying overhead would think that the trenches were empty. Gaps were left periodically allowing just a few men to be seen, apparently just sentries, whereas in fact the serctions of trench under the matting were packed with troops. Full surprise was achieved when they attacked, less than an hour after enemy planes had flown over them.

 

Ron

[Gunner Bailey]

Ron

 

There's a very good book called 'Drawing Fire' about the wartime experiences of Private Len Smith. (published by Collins). He was a very experienced front line soldier but also an artist. Following being wounded he was transferred to the RE Special Works.

 

It's a great book, beautifully illustrated.

 

John 

[BSM]

Check out AWM Image number E04933 ...  a very good example of a camouflaged dummy tank constructed by the Australian Engineers (4th Field company) that was used in action shortly after with AIF Divisions. Wood and painted hessian weighing approx a 1/4 ton each. Cheers..... RD

[NigelS]

On 03/07/2018 at 16:49, MikeMeech said:

Hi

 

The book 'Conceal, Create, Confuse - Deception as a British Battlefield Tactic in the First World War' by Martin Davies, has various examples of use of 'Dummy Tanks' including  (page 138-139) in relation to the Battle of Cambrai, 1917, including that by 56th Division (not involved in the main attack) of IV Corps who:

 

"...kept up a Chinese Attack all day with artillery, dummy soldiers, canvas tanks and copious amounts of smoke."

 

Also, 16th and 3rd Divisions:

 

"...mounted attacks with dummy infantry and tanks behind a smoke screen.  These Chinese Attacks had the express aim of supporting the important attack by 9 Brigade against Bovis and Tunnel Trenches on the front between Bullecourt and the Sensee, in order to remove a salient."

 

I hope that is of use.

 

Mike

Further to the 56th divn comment above in 'Four Years on the Western Front'  - a memoir by an LRB transport section rifleman gives,  also relating to Cambrai, this: 'A dummy tank consisting of a man on a bicycle with a huge frame work attached, had bravely journeyed down the Inchy road to draw fire from the infantry; let us hope he came through unscathed.'

Sound incredibly cumbersome & impractical, but can't help thinking about  images from between the wars of elaborate props used for fetes and carnivals etc propelled in a similar way

 

NigelS