Roeux and Chemical Works Arras

[delta]

and Robert Martin's map confirms it.

[dycer]

From the 8th Royal Scots History(Pioneer Battalion to the 51st(Highland)Division).

Battle of Arras.

"From 31st January to 31st May 1917,the Battalion was continuously in the line at Roclincourt,north-west of Arras,and subsequently at Roeux.Before the Division came into the line in February,they were attached to the 12th Division,and during the time the Division was out,they were attached to the 4th Division.During February and March,the Battalion reconstructed the communication trenches and support lines,dug new trenches,and made dug-outs.Following the attack on 9th April 1917,the Battalion constructed strong points,and put forward roads in repair.During the subsequent fighting round Rouex and the Chemical Works,the Battalion did some of its best work.It dug and maintained practically all the new front,support lines,and communication trenches,including "Crow,""Crook," Cash,""Crete,""Corona,""Ceylon,""Camel," etc.

Roeux 1918.

After a short rest at Gauchin L'Egal,the Battalion returned again to the Rouex-Greenland Hill sector,on 23rd September,and was mainly concerned in making of cross-country tracks,and assisting in the construction of a medium gauged railway."

George

[seaforths]

What was the status of Greenland Hill and Roeux Station and Chemical Works just prior to the attack on 3rd May 1917 ?

My maternal great-uncle was a Lance-Corporal with the 8th Btn Black Watch, 9th Scottish Div and he was killed that day. According to the war diary of the 8th BW:-

1st May 1917

Battalion took over front line from Seaforths, holding same frontage as attack would be launched from on 3rd May. Line runs from BRICKWORKS on GREENLAND HILL due SOUTH for 500 yards towards ROEUX STATION.

APPENDIX A

May 3rd

It had been understood that the attack would start at Dawn, and 4.45 am was named as ZERO hour. It was doubtful whether there would have been sufficient light at that hour to carry out the attack as a Daylight attack, but a few hours before the start, ZERO was changed to 3.45 am, which necessitated attacking in pitch darkness. There was no time to set out "lines" of direction or take bearings and the keeping of direction had to be left chiefly to chance.

THE ATTACK

The moon went down at 3.00 am and the attack started at 3.45 am in pitch darkness. Further troubles were created by all troops losing direction as they were absolutely unable to see where they were going.

The troops on the right had to incline to the right, and we had to incline to our left both these movements were carried out in too great a degree, with the result that there was a gap between The Black Watch and Camerons. This gap seems to have been partly filled by a Company of the Argylls. The troops on right and left of 26th Brigade also lost direction, with the result that the Camerons came into collision with the 4th Division and the Scottish Rifles charged into The Black Watch. Owing to heavy casualties both in Officers and men, it is impossible to collect anything like a correct story, but it appears likely that only a few scattered parties of men reached the German lines and these were captured or killed. The German artillery barrage started almost simultaneously with ours, and it was obvious that the attack was expected. Machine Gun fire, both from the enemy line and from the CHEMICAL WORKS was very heavy.

The attack was driven back to our lines, and a second was organised but achieved no success. The defence of our line was re-organised under the surviving officers, 2/Lieuts WILSON and McNEAL and CSM McARTHUR.

Many men remained out in shell holes and crawled in during the next few nights.

Casualties amounted to 12 Officers and 208 Other Ranks, 45 of whom were missing.

APPENDIX C

Casualties

3rd May.

Killed: 21; Wounded 129; Missing 43; Total 193.

[NB The War Diaries do not generally give details of Other Ranks casualties.]

Does this mean that the 8th BW had a position on Greenland Hill ? They mention a brickworks which I don't see in other descriptions. I thought I read somewhere that the Chemical Works had been temporarily captured by the British, yet by this account it certainly was not.

I ask members to help me locate the jumping-off position of the 8th Black Watch that morning. Can anyone help ?

Strangely enough, my paternal grandfather was a corporal with the 6th Black Watch of the 51st Highland Division which attacked Roeux within a few days of the 9th Scottish Division. I'm related to them both, yet they did not know each other !

Don't suppose you know which Seaforths they took over the line from? The 6th Seaforths went in on 20th April and relieved 5th Seaforths in support trenches. They came out again on 25th their movements are shown below and their casualties were 3 officers wounded 3 officers missing

ORs 20 killed 64 wounded 7 missing

20^th

The Battalion relieved the 5^th Seaforth Hrs in support trenches at FAMPOUX H16 d16.

23^rd

At 2a.m. after the troops for the assault had entered the assembly trenches East and North of FAMPOUX the Battalion was withdrawn to trenches in ATHIES as Divisional Reserve for the attack. The attack was carried out at 4.45a.m by the 153^rd & 154^th Brigades of the 51^st Division with the 17^th Division on their right and the 37^th Division on their left. At noon the Battalion was ordered up to the old British and German front lines N.E of FAMPOUX against expected German counter attacks. The Battalion came under a heavy hostile barrage on the way up.

24^th – 25^th

The Battalion held trenches North of the Chemical Works till relieved by the 26^th Northumberland Fusiliers about midnight.

[Honora]

Dear All of the above 

 

Many thanks for this interesting thread, worth bumping it up. 

 

 The 1st Somerset Light Infantry were also there:

 

WATTS, Francis Henry, Private, 26755, 1st Bn Somerset Light Infantry, killed in action 18 May 1917, aged 27, buried Row D, Grave 44, Roeux British Cemetery, about 13 km east of Arras (CWGC)

The Medal Roll and Soldier Effects Register have the date 3 May 1917

The Grave Registration Document has 18 May 1917. The entry above Frank  is corrected to 3 May 1917 from 20 May 1917.

 

Please may I use your maps to illustrate his story for local commemorative purposes (ie not commercial in any way).

 

(Just to add the SLI war diary for this period is typewritten - so easy to read!)

 

thanks 

Honora

[delta]

I am sure that Rob would have no objection

 

[EwenHardie]

Couple of pictures taken looking back towards Rouex and the site of the Chemical works.

The first 2 pictures are taken from the field just above Crump Trench Cemetrey. Mount Pleasant Wood just visible in the 2nd.

The last picture shows the now closed supermarket where the Chemical Works once stood.

[WarResearcher]

My Grandfather was a Sergeant with the 10th Lincoln's, originally serving with the Ox and Bucks from 1914

 

Here is a clip of a period article from The Lyn News

Prisoner of war in Germany and Switzerland for 14 months.
Sergt L.G.Coe, Lincolns, a son of Mr and Mrs W R Coe, Swaffham is a prisoner of war in a convalescent camp in Langensalza, Thuringen,
Germany. His serious wounds and his capture were due to an act of gallantry.
Joining the army in September 1914 and going out to France about April 1915, he fought his way successfully through the Arras battles and in the 
Vimy Ridge encounter he was with his comrades on the right of the Canadians.
During the engagement at Roeux he left the trenches to attend to a wounded officer who, lying in a shell hole, was calling for help. After bandaging 
the officer and leaving him for the stretcher bearers to bring in later he was returning to the trenches when he was shot through the temple.
One eye was carried away and only the deflecting of the bullet by bone of the nose seems to have saved the other.
He was reported as missing, but it transpires that he was picked up by the Germans and, with unwounded prisoners, taken away. He was placed in 
hospital where he received splendid surgical attention and now, as stated, is convalescing.

[Coogie99]

Resurrecting this thread, which I've been following over the decades, I'm seeking input on the 4th South Africans' attempt on the Chemical Works on April 12, 1917.  Maybe as many as six regiments of several units lined up in the streets of Fampoux for Zero hour (not a great plan).  They were cut down as they advanced, just like the 2nd Seaforths the day before, by a dozen MGs.  It was a bloodbath, especially for troops who'd been fighting in bitter cold for three days with no food.  However, an observation balloon reported seeing a few kilted men, who would have to be the 4th, the South African Scottish, approaching the Chemical Works, despite the MGs.  It was confirmed when their "bodies were recovered a month later."  This story is repeated by several authors, although it's not in the regimental diary.  It's j-u-s-t possible that one of these men was my great-granduncle, a member of Coy. C, which was the company that would be there.  Does anyone know where I might find the original observation report?  And, has anyone heard the story, and would they have suggestions what happened to the bodies?  My uncle is commemorated on the Arras Memorial as Missing, so has no known graves, but I have a quest to see if I can't at least identify the cemetery.  I'm using Graves registration and Concentration Reports, but so far none of Brown's Copse, Level Crossing, Fampoux, Crump Trench or Point-du-Jour are producing an ah-hah moment.

[WarResearcher]

Have you searched the National Archives?

[Coogie99]

1 hour ago, WarResearcher said:

Have you searched the National Archives?

The NA has some Observer Corps materials, but nothing online/scanned.

Edited 17 April , 2021 by Coogie99
Typo

[WarResearcher]

This memoir observation

 

April 12

Hail and snow with roaring gale – tried to take photos of lines but had to come back after an hour of rough flying.

 

 

[WarResearcher]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_April

[Rhodsey68]

Hi, just came across this post, currently looking at and trying to locate the area where our great uncle Joseph Middleton died on the 2nd June 1917 as part of the 9th battalion Cameronian Rifles, and remains missing due to shelling from enemy artillery. Here is an extract of the war diary. I thought i had found a location but after looking more, i could be mistaken. 
 

any help on location would be appreciated greatly.

 

Thanks 

[WhiteStarLine]

48 minutes ago, Rhodsey68 said:

I thought i had found a location but after looking more, i could be mistaken. 

Welcome to the forum @Rhodsey68 and if you got to this thread then you correctly located everything.  The map references you read are in a format not used for over 100 years but they can be plotted over modern maps.  Fife Camp and Balmoral Camp are in modern Saint-Nicolas, Arras.  Fampoux and Roeux are 8,000 yards to the east.  If you click to enlarge the map you can see the trenches in front of the chemical works.

[Rhodsey68]

Excellent thank you for the help. I was miles off.

 

[Howard]

A before and after.

Howard

[Howard]

Rotated North up.

Howard

[Howard]

If you put 51b.I.13.d.32.63 into TrenchMapper and click Convert, it will take you to the Chemical Works. Then click Update and then choose a map in the left panel. Some maps show trenches, others not.

Use the opacity slider top right to see the modern map, right click and choose Street View to see what is there now.

Howard

 

Edited 6 March by Howard
Forgot the map!