Mauser C96 Pistol

[Garron]

Hi Pals

Since Iron Cross thread on the C96 it raised a question with me.

Does anyone know the ratio of C96 pistols in 9mm and 7.63mm in German service?

and would this have caused logistic problems eg units being given 9mm when issued with 7.63 or vise versa?

(sorry if its a stupid question but I have been wondering it for a while.)

p.s. Does any one have a pictures of GW made 7.63, all google is throwing up is post war or modern commercial.

:edit: D'oh just realised I could have tagged this on to the end of that old thread :edit:

Thanks

Garron

[59165]

:edit: D'oh just realised I could have tagged this on to the end of that old thread :edit:

This is what old age does to ya....

[kmad]

Garron,

Sory i do not know the answer to your question. However, I am prety sure the 9mm version was only brought out after WW1. Ian Hoggs book "infantry weapons of WW11" is where i am taking this info from, abit from memory. All my books are in storage so i can't check this out.

sorry about being vague.

ken

[TonyE]

The "red 9" C96 pistols were German army issue, but the 7.63mm versions were never an issue weapon. Officers may have had private 7.63 pistols of course.

In 1916 when the German army started to have a pistol shortage the Gewehrprufungs Komission ordered 150,000 9mm C96 pistols from Mauser, and the total C96 production, including Schnellfeuers, is estimated at about 960,000. The military 9mm pistols have their own serial number range of 1 to 150,000.

To answer your question , a 9mm round will fit into a 7.63mm pistol and fire. The result is a very heavy recoil and a long thin bullet going downrange very fast. I know, I was there when it happened.

Re: the previous post, Hogg was a world authority on artillery - I believe he was the last Master Gunner the army had -and there was no one better writing on artillery. His small arms stuff is poor though, so you should not believe all he says. Mauser had introduced the 9mm "Export" model around 1910 for the South American market that fired the longer 9 x 25mm round

I will try to dig out a picture of WWI period C96, but it should have a milled out frame (introduced around 1907) and a new style safety (introduced around S/no 280,000 in 1915) which is pushed up for SAFE and can only be applied when the hammer is cocked. NS is usually stamped either on the safety or on the rear of the frame

Regads

TonyE

[TonyE]

Here is a not very good scan of a GW "Red 9" German army issue 9mm C96 pistol. The 7.63mm version looked pretty much the same.

The picture comes from the late Ed Ezell's excellent book "Handguns of the World" which covers military revolvers and self loaders from 1870 to 1945. Ed was Curator of Modern Military Small Arms at the Smithsonian Institute until his sad death a few years ago. I am sure he would not have minded me using it, but I have added his copyright anyway.

Regards

TonyE

[Garron]

Thanks Ken and Tony for the info and pics.

59165, I know, my memory is already going

Garron

[gew98]

TonyE ; I might beg to differ a bit on the 7,63 caliber versions...that is I do believe they were procured and issued during the great war. I had a heavily fraktur proofed example that it's serial placed it in 1917 production. The fraktur proofing proved without a doubt it was acquired by the german military and issued.

I have personally seen at least two C96 rigs with all the gadgetry, unit marked and fraktur proofed that were issue pistols and were in the 7.63 caliber.

[TonyE]

I stand corrected, but I have not come across any military issue 7.63s, nor can remember seeing any reference to them, but I am no expert on German military small arms.

Do you know how many were purchased? Was commercial ammo issued for them, as I don't recall ever seeing WWI military 7.63mm?

Thanks for the info,

Regards

TonyE

[gew98]

I stand corrected, but I have not come across any military issue 7.63s, nor can remember seeing any reference to them, but I am no expert on German military small arms.

Do you know how many were purchased? Was commercial ammo issued for them, as I don't recall ever seeing WWI military 7.63mm?

Thanks for the info,

Regards

TonyE

Tony ; to be honest I don't think I have ever handled any 7,63 mauser patronen that dated before 1930, which causes me to want to inquire to some buddies of mine now.

I had a book years ago that had a very good block of information regarding the C96 in wartime germans service ...I long ago traded that book when I tired of pistols.Sure wish I kept that reference. But , I will now pick the brains of some buddies and see if I find any data relevant to this discussion and will post it here if I do.

[auchonvillerssomme]

what would the german private purchase weapon of choice be? I understood the issue weapons explored here were very good.

Mick

[gew98]

what would the german private purchase weapon of choice be? I understood the issue weapons explored here were very good.

Mick

Mick ; the germans had a fondness for 32 automatic pistols, and to a lesser extent 25 auto pistols with a variety of both available. As well as the german government procuring 32 auto pistols these were available for private purchase by officers ( generally they were the only ones that could afford them and as well authorized same ).

As well I am sure many captured pistols were carried by german troops in the field. Like ruby 7,65 auto pistols , webley and colt revolvers , french M92 revolvers , Nagant revolvers , beglian and italian pistols too I would bet. The germans were frugal enough and in as much need that they officially reissued such foreign weapons they captured in any fair quantity.

[TonyE]

There were a lot of Mauser Model 1910 (6,35mm) and Model 1912 (7,65mm) pistols used by senior officers, as well as the Walther equivalents, the Models 3, 4 and 5.

Both companies also made 9mm Parabellum pistols, but I doubt if many of these were used as they were both blowback designs not suited to the heavy recoil of the Parabellum round.

Also of course there were private purchase commercial Parabellum and C96 pistols used by officers.

Gew98 - I look forward to anything you can dig out on the 7.63 C96 question. Re: the ammo, contemporary DWM commercial rounds are fairly common over here, but I have never seen a military loading. WWI military 9mm are also getting a bit scarce these days!

Regards

TonyE