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Remembered Today:

Where were they on 9th October 1917


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Looking for where the 1st battalion Irish Guards were on 9th October 1917,

My great uncle Private Patrick Heffernan 11743 Irish Guards died on this day.

Remembered at Tyne Cot memorial.

All info welcomed, flufffluff

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1st & 2nd Bns Irish Guards were engaged in the Battle of Poelcappelle, 3rd Ypres, that day. No doubt a map will follow! Phil B

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Have a look at this thread.

I posted some maps.EDIT added to thread below.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=57499&hl=

From Headlam Guards Division in Great War.

Vol I page 273.

On the extreme right of the 1st Guards Brigade , at its point of junction with the Newfoundland Regiment (29th Division) the 1st Irish Guards had some hard fighting. The advance of the Newfoundlanders was not so rapid as that of the Irishmen, who, in consequence were subjected to a good deal of machine gun fire from their right and rear whilst attacking Egypt House and the brickfield to the north of it which the Germans defended stoutly. They successed nevertheless in dislodging the enemy from both of these points of vantage and then pushed on to their final objective, where the front held by the right of the battalion had to be bent back west of Angle Point in order to form a defensive flank facing eastwards, the exact whereabouts of the attacking troops of the 29th Division being uncertain.This flank unfortunately was much exposed to the fire of the German snipers on the right of the divisional boundary, as well as in Cairo House in the rear of the Irish Guards and the battalion in consequence suffered a good many casualties while the work of consolidation was being carried out.
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QUOTE (Phil_B @ Feb 1 2007, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1st & 2nd Bns Irish Guards were engaged in the Battle of Poelcappelle, 3rd Ypres, that day. No doubt a map will follow! Phil B

Hi Phil, thanks for the information, would you have any idea where i could find information on the Battle of Poelcappelle. Thanks fluff fluff

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footnote to my other post.

"All four Companies [1st Bn Irish Guards] reached their final objective mixed up together, and since their right was well in the air, by the reason of the delay of the flanking troops, they had to make a defensive flank to connect with a battalion of the next Division that came up later. It was then that they were worst-sniped from the shell-holes, and the casualties among the Officers, who had to superintend the forming of the flanks were heaviest."

See The Irish Guards in the Great War vol I pages 239-240.

http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/au...dsv1/index.html

At 9.30 on the night of the 8th, in heavy rain, the Battalion marched from Abingley Camp to their assembly lines (these all duly marked by tapes and white signboards, which, to the imaginative, suggest graveyards) from Elverdinghe to Boesinghe road, up “Clarges Street” to Abri Wood, and then to Cannes farm till they met the guides for their assembly areas at Ruisseau farm. From here began the interminable duck-boards that halt and congest the slow-moving line; and it was not till four in the morning that the Battalion was formed up and moved off. The rain had stopped a little before midnight and a late moon came to their help.

The companies were commanded as follows: No. 1, Captain the Hon. P. J. Ogilvy; No. 2, Lieutenant D. S. Browne; No. 3, Captain R. B. S. Reford; No. 4, Lieutenant N. B. Bagenal.

There was some shelling as they got into their assembly positions at 5.20 A.M., but casualties were few. The 2nd Grenadiers and 2nd Coldstream led off under a few minutes’ blast of intense fire from field-guns and Stokes mortars, crossed the Broembeek and were away. At 6.20 the 1st Irish Guards and 3rd Coldstream followed them. The Battalion’s crossing-place at the river, which, after all, proved not so unmanageable as the patrols reported, had no bridges, but there was wire enough, on the banks to have made trouble had the enemy chosen that time and place to shell. They went over in three-foot water with mud at the bottom; reformed, ‘wet and filthy, and followed the 2nd Grenadiers who had captured the first and second objectives, moved through them at 8.20 and formed up on the right of the 3rd Coldstream under the barrage of our guns for their own advance on the final objective—the edge of the forest.

So far, barring a tendency to bear towards the right or railway side, direction had been well kept and their losses were not heavy. The companies deployed for attack on the new lines necessitated by the altered German system of defense—mopping-up sections in rear of the leading companies, with Lewis-gun sections, and a mopping-up platoon busy behind all.

Meantime, the troops on the Battalion’s right had been delayed in coming up, and their delay was more marked from the second objective onward. This did not check the Guards’ advance, but it exposed the Battalion’s right to a cruel flanking fire from snipers among the shell-holes on the uncleared ground by the Ypres–Staden line. There were pill-boxes of concrete in front; there was a fortified farm buried in sandbags, Egypt House, to be reduced; there were nests of machine-guns on the right which the troops on the right had not yet overrun, and there was an almost separate and independent fight in and round some brick-fields, which, in turn, were covered by the fire of snipers from the fringes of the forest. Enemy aircraft skimming low gave the German artillery every help in their power, and the enemy’s shelling was accurate accordingly. The only thing that lacked in the fight was the bayonet. The affair resolved itself into a series of splashing rushes, from one shell-hole to the next, terrier-work round the pill-boxes, incessant demands for the Lewis-guns (rifle-grenades, but no bombs, were employed except by the regular bombing sections and moppers-up who cleared the underground shelters), and the hardest sort of personal attention from the officers and N.C.O.’s. All four companies reached the final objective mixed up together and since their right was well in the air, by the reason of the delay of the flanking troops, they had to make a defensive flank to connect with a battalion of the next division that came up later. It was then that they were worst sniped from the shell-holes, and the casualties among the officers, who had to superintend the forming of the flank, were heaviest. There was not much shelling through the day. They waited, were sniped, and expected a counter-attack which did not come off, though in the evening the enemy was seen to be advancing and the troops on the Battalion’s right fell back for a while, leaving their flank once more exposed. Their position at the time was in a somewhat awkward salient, and they readjusted themselves—always under sniping-fire—dug in again as much as wet ground allowed, and managed in the dark to establish connection with a battalion of Hampshires that had come up on their right.

They spent the night of the 9th October where they lay, in the front line, while the enemy sniped them, shelled their supports, or put down sudden wandering barrages from front to back. Every company commander had been killed or wounded during the day; their medical officer (Captain P. R. Woodhouse, M.C.) was wounded at duty on the 10th, the men were caked with mud and ooze, worn to their last nerves and badly in need of food and hot drinks. There was no infantry action on their front, however, throughout the 10th, and in the evening they were relieved by two companies of the 1st Grenadiers; the other two companies of that battalion relieving the 2nd Grenadiers in the support-line. The battle, which counted as “a successful minor operation” in the great schemes of the Third Battle of Ypres, had cost them four officers killed in action on the 9th, one died of wounds on the 11th, seven officers and their doctor wounded in the two days; forty-seven other ranks killed; one hundred and fiftyeight wounded, and ten missing among the horrors of the swampy pitted ground. The list runs:

Capt. the Hon. P. J. Ogilvy

Capt. R. J. P. Rodakowski

2nd Lieut. A. L. Wells

2nd Lieut. T. S. V. Stoney }

}

}

} killed October 9.

2nd Lieut. H. V. Fanshawe died 11th October of wounds received on the 9th.

Capt. R. B. S. Reford

Lieut. N. B. Bagenal

Lieut. D. S. Browne

2nd Lieut. E. M. Harvey

2nd Lieut. T. Corry }

}

}

}

} wounded October 9th.

Capt. P. R. Woodhouse

Lieut. H. H. Maxwell

2nd Lieut. E. H. Dowler }

}

} wounded October 10th.

It took them eight hours along the taped tracks and the duck-boars to get to Rugby Camp behind Boesinghe, where they stayed for the next two days and drew a couple of officers and a hundred men from the Divisional Reinforcement Battalion to replace some of their casualties.

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No problems, happy to help.

Any photos of Patrick Heffernan?

SDGW has

Hefferman, Patrick

Born Windgap Co Kilkenny

enlisted Carrick-on-Suir Co Tipperary

11743

Pte

K in A F & F 9/10/17

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post-9683-1170333703.jpg

Sorry bit blurred hope this helps locate Egypt and Cairo Houses.

can see it quite clearl. All this information I will put in Patrick Heffernan book. im into family history

and all we knew about my grandfather that his brother died in WW1 and nothing else apart from he was baptized in Windgap, Co Kilkenny. by researching I found Patrick Heffernan. I went to Tyne Cot to honour him. Since then I found I where his sister went to and they have Patrick's Medals and war plaque and the letter sent by George 5th to the parents of Patrick. The only thing now is to see from his records if there was a photo of him. Thanks again flufffluff

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post-9683-1170333703.jpg

Sorry bit blurred hope this helps locate Egypt and Cairo Houses.

can see it quite clearl. All this information I will put in Patrick Heffernan book. im into family history

and all we knew about my grandfather that his brother died in WW1 and nothing else apart from he was baptized in Windgap, Co Kilkenny. by researching I found Patrick Heffernan. I went to Tyne Cot to honour him. Since then I found I where his sister went to and they have Patrick's Medals and war plaque and the letter sent by George 5th to the parents of Patrick. The only thing now is to see from his records if there was a photo of him. Thanks again flufffluff

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