montbrehain Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 A friend of mine is a collector of uniforms , In one of his purchases he found this travel warrant ? we have attempted to read it , but would like a second opinion , We are not sure if the Officer named on the warrant is the owner of the tunic ? or the unnamed officer ? Reason being the tunic is that of Lt of the Royal Scots Fusiliers , but if interpreted as Fleming?? None of the Letter combinations match any Flemings listed as serving with the Regt in the 1918 Army Lists. Also Any thoughts on the RTO signature. Any help appreciated. Just a thought , the tunic has a square dark green battle patch on both sleeves. Would this Identify a Battalion and therefore narrow the search ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 looks like Flemming to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 Lt J D Fleming mwas included in warrant dated today and made out for 1 officers from Dover to georgetown. ? J Spilbury, Capt, PTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 It certainly looks like Fleming (J.D?) or Flemming, or possibly Hemming. The RTO I would guess at J. Spilsbury. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 I think the signature is Spilsbury, initials possibly M.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartd Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 Well, my own reading and helped by above psotings is: Lt J. D. Flemming was included in warrant 60978898 dated today & made out for 1 officers from Dover to Georgetown. N.J. Spilsbury, Capt, PTO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snavek Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 Could I suggest it was made out for 2 officers. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartd Posted 30 January , 2007 Share Posted 30 January , 2007 2 offficers would also account for the plural. Well spotted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Couldn't find a Lt. J.D. Flemming on the MIC's, but there was a Lt. J.G. Flemming, R.E.?? Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 I agree RTO - Railway Transport Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Could the RTO be R S J Spilsbury? He is in the Sept 1918 Army list as being in the Protection Companies of the Royal Defence Corps TF. Does anyone know what they did? Whatever it was it was home based as I could find a MIC for him. There is a Robert S J Spilsbury in the 1901 census, born about 1897 in Streatham, London. So he would have only been about 21 at the end of the war. Poor lad missed ‘all the action’, but I bet his mother was pleased. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblake66 Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Here's your RTO Capt: Image details Description Medal card of Spilsbury, Robert Spilsbury Jeffery Corps Regiment No Rank Somerset Light Infantry 3605 Lance Serjeant Somerset Light Infantry 20406 Lance Serjeant Somerset Light Infantry 29540 Lance Serjeant Royal Defence Corps Lieutenant Railway Transport Offices Captain Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/18 Possibly overanalyzing but has anyone else noticed that the 'J' in his signature is very different to the first initial of Lt Flemming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblake66 Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Also, it appears that Fleming with one 'm' rather than two appears to be more common. Here's two possibilities that fit a Royal Scots Lt of J Fleming (the second rose to Lt): Medal card of Fleming, James Corps: Royal Scots Rank: Lieutenant 1914-1920 WO 372/7 Medal card of Fleming, J Corps: Royal Scots Regiment No: 3830 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/7 Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.Savery Posted 31 January , 2007 Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Possibly overanalyzing but has anyone else noticed that the 'J' in his signature is very different to the first initial of Lt Flemming? It looks like the poor chap was also left handed! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblake66 Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 Tony, Can you really tell this? Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 Jane, left handed people often have their writing titling to the left instead of to the right. I do that and so does one of my cousins who is lefthanded. I thought 'lefthanded' the minute I saw that writing yesterday, but never thought to mention it. Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.A.Savery Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 Tony, Can you really tell this? Jane Hi Jane, Yes. If you think about it, most people write by using the right side of the hand as a pivot. When the hand is relaxed and the pen moves in a rhythmical fashion, then the words tend to flow and the letters slant a little to the right. In the case of this man, all his letters slant uniformly to the left giving a strong indication that he was left-handed. It’s beautiful handwriting and much nicer than my own and I am right-handed. Never the less, it looks unusual because of the way it is written. I will add that I am not an expert on this subject, so it would be interesting to hear anyone elses views on this. Allie has also confirmed my thoughts. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 "...Yes. If you think about it, most people write by using the right side of the hand as a pivot. When the hand is relaxed and the pen moves in a rhythmical fashion, then the words tend to flow and the letters slant a little to the right...." But by the same token, many left handers write 'crab', that is, with the left hand crooked into an inverted 'J', to write from above the line of text. Others write with the paper turned almost at 90 degrees to the 'normal', effectively writing down the page rather than across it (the technique I favour, but not popular with teachers of the period). In each case the aim is to keep the left hand clear of the text, first, so that the writer can read what they've just written and secondly, to prevent smudging the (still liquid) ink just laid down. Just an observation. Tom (the Walrus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliekiwi Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 I used to 'crab', but when I had to start writing with a fountain pen in Form 1 I had to write with my hand underneath the writing to avoid smudging, and that meant tilting my writing to the left. Thank goodness for typewriters and computers! Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete L Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 Well done for finding his MIC. I owe him an apology for hinting he might have missed out on the fighting. I do believe that they are both 'J's however. The J in Flem(m)ing is written, while his is part of his signature, so he is less careful - look at the R for example. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 1 February , 2007 Share Posted 1 February , 2007 I agree. The difference between the two Js is because the first one had to be written as a “stand alone” letter as it is followed by another initial; while the second one flows into the rest of the signature. I don’t see them as fundamentally dissimilar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblake66 Posted 2 February , 2007 Share Posted 2 February , 2007 I never thought about the difference between left and right-handed writing, probably because my own penmanship is a mess. I knew I was overanalyzing the difference between the 'J's but thought I'd throw it out so as not to rule out any other possibility for the first initial. All makes good sense though. Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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