HANDFORTH INTERNEE CAMP

[alanmudd]

To anyone interested. I found the name of this camp when trying to find out where my Great uncle, John Henry Brickman, who was interned from Middlesbrough, was sent. I do know he died in the 2nd Northern General Leeds in 1916, but nothing else. The article I found was in the North Eastern Gazette and related to the press association's special reporter, who was apparently visiting internment camps. I have typed up this report and could email it to anyone interested. It refers to Handforth as a disused rubber factory and gives details of conditions and life there. Regards. Alan Muddiman.

[John_Hartley]

Welcome to the Forum, Alan.

As you'll have seen from the earlier posts, Handforth is just up the road from me. I would appreciate a copy of the write-up and will drop you a PM with my email address.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

John

[Doug Johnson]

American Embassy, London (German Division)

April 11th 1916

Sir,

I have the pleasure to submit to you herewith a report covering a visit of inspection to the prisoner of war internment camp at Handforth, Cheshire, on the 1st April, 1916.

Direction :- The camp is under the general supervision of the Commander of the Western District, and the commandant is Lieutenant-Colonel A. Kenney Herbert.

Prisoners:- There were 2,713 prisoners at this camp, all of whom were Germans, comprising 2,399 military prisoners, 313 naval prisoners, and one civilian, who was allowed to be in this camp so that he could see his wife, who was seriously ill in Manchester, a few miles away.

Committees:- The management and control of this camp are practically in the hands of a German Feldwebel-Leutnant interned here, who is a member of all the committees. The committees are as follows: a “Lowry” committee, a relief committee, which works with Dr. Markel: a hand-work committee, which is principally interested in carving, for which it buys wood etc; a canteen fund committee, the profits of which go to the kitchen; an amusement committee, which each Sunday gives either a concert or a theatrical entertainment, and often during the week also; a gymnastic committee, and a teaching committee, which gives extraordinary opportunities for education. There were thirty teachers, who give instruction every day in languagee etc, to between 400 and 500 men. The plan of studies is hereto annexed (sent to Berlin). There is also a library committee, which has in the library over 3,000 books. All those committees are entirely chosen and run by the prisoners themselves.

Sleeping Accommodations:- There has been no change in the sleeping accommodations since the last visit, except that the beds have been arranged across instead of along the rooms, and shelves have been erected between the rows of beds. One of the larger dormitories has also been turned into a dining room, and a special dining room is provided for the non-commissioned officers. The rooms were carefully examined and found very neat, clean, well-warmed, well-lighted, and well-ventilated.

Sanitary Arrangements:- A new sewage system has been adopted and is nearly complete. Water-flushing latrines are replacing the dry-earth system at the west end. The sanitary arrangements were inspected and found neat and clean and odourless. The commandant reports that the changes, now nearly completed, will be a great improvement, although he had received no complaints about the sewage arrangements in general.

Infirmary:- There were two doctors, assisted by nine British and four German attendants, two of whom were cooks and one an interpreter. On the day of my visit there were eighteen in-patients and thirty-five out-patients. There was only one serious, a case of dysentery. The other patients were suffering from influenza, colds, rheumatism, and some were recovering from wounds. There is an isolation ward, where contagious cases, such as scabies, are treated.

The infirmary has its own sanitary arrangements and kitchen. Everything was found in good condition, and there was no criticism to be made.

Kitchens:- There was opne kitchen in charge of a Feldwebel, two under-oficers, and twenty-two men. The daily ration may be, and is, increased by the purchases made by the kitchen committee from the profits of the canteen fund. There was nothing found to criticise in the kitchen arrangements.

Work:- The prisoners were engaged in shoemaking, tailoring, carpentering, and gardening; also in working on the paths and grounds of the camp, when this work is necessary and approved by the engineers, and for this they receive pay.

Exercise:- On every fine day a party, not exceeding 300, march for an hour in the adjacent country roads. Two field are available for exercise, but only one, of about 3 to 4 acres, is being used at the present time, so as to give the grass on the other field a chance to grow.

A few prisoners have volunteered for garden work in an adjacent field, and more can be given this work if they desire.

There is also a cinder ground, nearer to the camp, which can be used as an exercise ground in wet weather, and there is a gymnasium fitted with the usual gymnastic appliances.

Wants by Camp:- There were no complaints of a serious nature at this camp. Several of the interned prisoners requested their exchange or repatriation. These matters were all taken up either with the War Office or with the commandant of the camp, and I was assured that each case should have proper attention.

There were also two complaints made about the sanitary arrangements. This matter was taken personally, and I was informed that the improvements now being made in these arrangements would obviate the difficulties complained of.

Observations:- There was no criticism of any kind to be made of this camp, and everything wass found in excellent condition. The German Feldwebel-Leutnant, who has charge of the running and care of the camp seems to have the confidence of the men, who all appeared to be in excellent physical, mental, and moral condition.

There was one man in the cells awaiting trial for aggravated assault with a sharp instrument. The cells were clean, dry and airy

I have etc

Boyston A. Beal, special Attaché.

[JohnWW]

I am new to this page so I hope I get it right.

I found my German Grandfather's village of birth and his Internmant Camp (Handforth) and his Internee Number from the Anglo German Family History Society of which I am a memeber.

From reading here it seems that he would not have stayed at Handforth, nor would he have been sent to Lofthouse, the next village to Stanley, where he lived, near Wakefield, because that was for 'Privileged Internees'! I now have to assume that he was transferred to Knockaloe on the Isle of Man. I have no idea whether Handforth was his initial camp of incarceration, or if that was from where he was finally released, on 29 July 1919.

Can anyone say that they have had helpful information from the Red Cross in Geneva? If so, how? Please.

On one of my uncle's death certificate it gives the place of his demise as 2nd Northern General Hospital, Leeds. He died 8 February 1917 from Acute Rheumatic Endocarditis. I have no idea where he was interned when he became 18 years old. Was that a military hospital for prisoners?

Were younger men put with the older men in camps?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Doug Johnson]

Hi John,

You are the second new member to mention a death at the 2nd NGH at Leeds. There is no indication in the "List of Places of Internment" that this was used for PoWs/internees although it was a military hospital. East Leeds War Hospital on Harehills Road is listed so either these are the same place or more likely, the 2nd NGH was used for certain illnesses on a case by case basis.

Doug

[Doug Johnson]

John,

In your post you mention that Lofthouse Park was for privileged prisoners. Have you any information on what made them privileged and was their treatment any better than others? From the pictures, the accommodation looks much the same as the other camps.

Doug

[JohnWW]

John,

In your post you mention that Lofthouse Park was for privileged prisoners. Have you any information on what made them privileged and was their treatment any better than others? From the pictures, the accommodation looks much the same as the other camps.

Doug

My remark was based on two documents, the relative info which i hope is of some use is as follows:-

American Embassy, London (German Division),

Sir, June 12, 1916.

.…The ordinary Government ration is supplemented by extra meat, fish, fruit, vegetables, &c., which the interned men purchase themselves. This camp is a privileged camp, where a superior class of men are sent, and they are prepared to pay for better messes and accommodations.

Two specimen bills of fare are enclosed herewith (Exhibit A).* The beef and Hamburger steaks, which had been cooked for dinner on the day of our visit, attracted our particular attention on account of their excellence….

*Sent to Berlin.

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference 40/45/10947

PRIVILEGED SECTION, COMPOUND IV.

On October the 8th. & 10th, . 1918 the Civilian Prisoners of War at Lofthouse Parks Wakefield, were transferred to Camp-IV, Knockaloe. The inmates of Compound 4 in this Camp had been drafted into the other Compounds to make room for the new arrivals. This Compound then became the ''Privilege Camp'", the inmates agreeing to pay 11/-shillings per head per week for an improvement of the, rations -service., china and linen and for the concession to consume spirits (wine only) and the separation from the general Camp….

….As compared with Wakefield, where the Ps/W. had to rely entirely, on their own talent for physical, mental and recreative activities, the inmates had here the appreciable advantage of being able to draw on the resources of the entire Camp, so that subsequently theatrical performances, concerts, lectures etc. took place in Compound 4 almost every night, whereby, incidentally, the various Theatres, Bands etc. obtained the needed financial support. The former theatrical group of Wakefield produced two plays which-toured the Camp. As mentioned elsewhere some of the teachers, living in the Privileged Compound, came to the rescue of the Camp IV Schools and enabled the students to bring their efforts to a satisfactory conclusion….

Lofthouse might not have been so superior but there seems to have been some advantages by being there.

John

[JohnWW]

Hi John,

You are the second new member to mention a death at the 2nd NGH at Leeds. There is no indication in the "List of Places of Internment" that this was used for PoWs/internees although it was a military hospital. East Leeds War Hospital on Harehills Road is listed so either these are the same place or more likely, the 2nd NGH was used for certain illnesses on a case by case basis.

Doug

Regarding the 2nd Northern General Hospital I found under www.leodis.net (The Photographic Archive for Leeds) a oicture of the hospital (for purchase) and the description:-

‘Undated, The teacher training college at Beckett's Park was built in 1913. During the First World War it was converted to a military hospital. It was officially called the 2nd Northern General Hospital but was more commonly referred to as Beckett's Park Hospital. There were 3200 beds and the hospital treated 57,200 soldiers between 1914 to 1918. The hospital was gradually returned to educational uses until the outbreak of the Second World War when it was used to treat the Dunkirk wounded. The college is now part of Leeds Metropolitan University.’

John

[JohnWW]

To anyone interested. I found the name of this camp when trying to find out where my Great uncle, John Henry Brickman, who was interned from Middlesbrough, was sent. I do know he died in the 2nd Northern General Leeds in 1916, but nothing else. The article I found was in the North Eastern Gazette and related to the press association's special reporter, who was apparently visiting internment camps. I have typed up this report and could email it to anyone interested. It refers to Handforth as a disused rubber factory and gives details of conditions and life there. Regards. Alan Muddiman.

The answer I gave to Doug Johnson is as below I'm sure it could be of interest to you too.

Regarding the 2nd Northern General Hospital I found under www.leodis.net (The Photographic Archive for Leeds) a oicture of the hospital (for purchase) and the description:-

‘Undated, The teacher training college at Beckett's Park was built in 1913. During the First World War it was converted to a military hospital. It was officially called the 2nd Northern General Hospital but was more commonly referred to as Beckett's Park Hospital. There were 3200 beds and the hospital treated 57,200 soldiers between 1914 to 1918. The hospital was gradually returned to educational uses until the outbreak of the Second World War when it was used to treat the Dunkirk wounded. The college is now part of Leeds Metropolitan University.’

John

[alanmudd]

Hi John,

You are the second new member to mention a death at the 2nd NGH at Leeds. There is no indication in the "List of Places of Internment" that this was used for PoWs/internees although it was a military hospital. East Leeds War Hospital on Harehills Road is listed so either these are the same place or more likely, the 2nd NGH was used for certain illnesses on a case by case basis.

Doug

Hi Doug. I am the first new member to mention the Leeds General, it was given as the place of death on my great uncle's death certificate. Could you tell me where I can find the lst of places of internment you mention please? It may help me find out where he was if not at Handforth, as the letter from another member says there was only one civilian there in April 1916, who was not my relative. Regards Alan

[Doug Johnson]

John,

Thanks for the info on Lofthouse Park. Having searched my files I found that I have the same report but in my "not yet read" heap. I also found a copy of a memorandum from December 1914 which states that "interned civilians have been given the opportunity to elect far better accommodation and food at their own expense. Those who do not avail themselves of this are divided into social classes in the various places of internment. They all receive the same accommodation and food, but can consort with those of their own class"

Alan,

The list of places of internment is just that, a list of places. For Handforth the entry reads;

Handforth

Hfth

Rubber Works, Handforth, Cheshire

It was originally a contemporary publication but has been reprinted and may still be available (not cheap for what it is if my memory serves me correctly).

Aplogies for the delay in responding to these but I have been travelling a lot of late.

Doug

[alanmudd]

John,

In your post you mention that Lofthouse Park was for privileged prisoners. Have you any information on what made them privileged and was their treatment any better than others? From the pictures, the accommodation looks much the same as the other camps.

Doug

Hello Doug. I started out asking about Handforth because I thought my great uncle was sent there. However, I now think he may have gone to Lofthouse Park because of a letter from an inmate taken from Middlesbrough on the day I think my great uncle was arrested. I can send you a copy if of any interest, it describes conditions in the camp. You can contact me direct at the.muddiman@fsmail.net. Regards Alan.

[Schuler]

I've not been on here for a long while but have not been idle!

A friend of mine in Germany who helped me build the bridge to my German ancestors, has asked me for help.

He is going to give a lecture on German citizens interned in WWI and forced or willingly left the country on release from camp.

The person in question is Karl Vogelmann, born 18th February 1879 in Unterheimbach, Oberamt Oehringen, Baden-Württemberg who was interned at Handforth Camp and released on 20th January 1918.

I have searched and found practically everything there is to know about him before internment. His wife, Sarah Louisa Taylor Vogelmann, left with him and their three daughters in 1918 for Unterheimbach, Baden-Württemberg but she and the daughters returned to England and Sarah divorced him in 1920. In 1939, exempted from Internment, and livîng in Hull, Yorkshire, the decision being that she was British born and divorced from him in 1920.

Carl Vogelmann was forced to leave all his possessions (whatever they might have been) and seek a living as door to door salesman in Unterheimbach.

He was a hide and skin merchant in Lincolnshire (historical directories).

In the 1911 Census, their Name is "Birdman".

He had two brother, George and John Vogelmann, allegedly naturalised. These I have also researched and found that John married twice, to English women, the second time to his sister-in-law.

Any Information over and above this, would be greatly appreciated.

Gill

[Schuler]

I have no idea which camp he was sent to and at first wondered why I had written Handforth. I went through all my notes and now realise why.

It was because of the following excerpt I read:

The British Way

A large gathering of Germans from Handforth Camp, Wilmslow attended the funeral of August Vogelmann, Sergeant Major in the Prussian Guards. Vogelmann, who was only recently captured, arrived at the camp last week and he is stated to be the first Prussian Guard who has died in England.

Military Honours were accorded and the German’s own band was in attendance.

The Rector of Wilmslow conducted the service.

Western Daily Press

4^th October 1918

[Guest markrm]

Images in this link are related to the Handforth POW camp

JWK in the Netherlands provided information on the officer marked in the group of POW.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=55588&start=50

[Spillers]

Hi,

Although I live not far from this site in Handforth and regularly pass the location to visit by brother-in-law, I had no idea of the existance of this POW Camp until reading an article in the local town web-site. An information board has just been sited giving details of the POW Camp (link below). I've not had chance to see it yet, but will get a photo shortly. It seems to me that the location was the site of the former Co-op buildings which I remember well.

Although not directly relevant to this site, the Handforth area has a history of military activity - the area just to the North of this POW Camp was the Handforth Maintenance Unit 61 in WW2 - the location of the adjacent main line railway was the key to why it was located there. Even until recently there were "Government Offices" nearby, and the area between Handforth and Woodford - with it's former Airfield was used as a WW2 POW Camp.

http://www.wilmslow.co.uk/news/article/10671/site-of-former-prisoner-of-war-camp-commemorated

Regards,

Guy.

[Guest APM]

I think my grandfather worked as a guard at the internment camp. Would anyone know how I might find out?

[John_Hartley]

Welcome to the Fourm, APM.

Unfortunately, it is probably impossible to find out if he was at the camp for certain, as there are few records of home based units. What makes you think he was there?

[Guest APM]

My grandmother was from Wilmslow and my grandfather was from Liverpool. My brother heard that they met while my grandfather was a guard at an internment camp in 1915. My grandfather was about 40 years old at the time. They settled in Liverpool.