hmsk212 Posted 30 November , 2003 Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Hi, I have always been perplexed by the meanings of the various clauses to Para 392 that appear on War & Victory Medal Rolls etc. I have therefore looked them up at Kew and list them below for anyone else who was in the same boat as me. I apologise if this has been put on the site before. Cause of Discharge (i) References on enlistment being unsatisfactory (ii) Having been irregularly enlisted (iii) Not being likely to become an efficient soldier (a) Recruit rejected both by medical officer and approving officer ( Recruit passed by medical officer, but rejected by a recruiting officer stationed away from the headquarters of the recruiting area, or by approving officer (c ) Recruit within three months of enlistment considered unfit for service (cc) Recruits with more than three months service considered unfit for further military service (d) Recruit who after having undergone a course of physical training is recommended by an examining board to be discharged, or in the case of a mounted corps is unable to ride (e) Soldier of local battalion abroad considered unlikely to become efficient (f) Boy, who, on reaching 18 years of age, is considered to be physically unfit for the ranks (iv) Having been claimed as an apprentice (v) Having claimed it on payment of 10/- within three months after his attestation (vi) Having made a mis-statement as to age on enlistment (a) Soldier under 17 years of age at date of application for discharge ( Soldier between 17 and 18 years of age at date of application for discharge (vii) Having been claimed for wife desertion (a) By the parish authorities ( By the wife (viii) Having made false answer on attestation (ix) Unfitted for the duties of the corps (x) Having been convicted by the civil power of ___ or of an offence comitted before enlistment (xi) For misconduct (xii) Having been sentenced to penal servitude (xiii) Having been sentenced to be discharged with ignomony (xiv) At his own request on payment of ___ under Article 1130 (i), Pay Warrant (xv) Free, after ___ years service under Article 1130 (ii), Pay Warrant (xva) Free under Article 1130 (i), Pay Warrant (xvb) Free. To take up civil employment which cannot be held open (xvi) No longer physically fit for service (xviii) At his own request after 18 years service (with a view to pension under the Pay Warrant) (xix) For the benefit of the public service after 18 years service (with a view to pension under the Pay Warrant) (xx) Inefficiency after 18 years service ( with a view to a pension under the Pay Warrant) (xxi) The termination of his ___ period of engagement (xxii) With less than 21 years service towards engagement, but with 21 or more years service towards pension (xxiii) Having claimed discharge after three months notice (xxiv) Having reached the age for discharge (xxv) His service being no longer required (xxvi) At his own request after 21 (or more) years service (with a view to pension under the Pay Warrant) (xxvii) After 21 (or more) years qualifying service for pension, and with 5 (or more) years service as warrant officer (with a view to pension under the Pay Warrant) There appears to be no clause (xvii) and I have also come across clauses not listed here (xxva), (xxviii). I would assume that these were later additions to the regulations. If anyone out there in the ether can give me any further information on the clauses mentioned I would be most grateful. Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 30 November , 2003 Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Steve, that's great. I'll put a page on it on the Long, Long Trail, with appropriate credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 30 November , 2003 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Many thanks for that Chris. I had better leave the site now or I might be discharged under Para 392 Clause (viib) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 30 November , 2003 Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Steve Thank you very much for that - everything you've ever needed to know about para 392 but were afraid to ask! Regards - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 30 November , 2003 Share Posted 30 November , 2003 Many thanks for that Chris. I had better leave the site now or I might be discharged under Para 392 Clause (viib) Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 1 December , 2003 Share Posted 1 December , 2003 Steve, Brilliant - I had some but not the full list. Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Light Posted 2 December , 2003 Share Posted 2 December , 2003 (xxii) With less than 21 years service towards engagement, but with 21 or more years service towards pension Having read this through, most of it seems quite clear, but can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of the above clause. Probably obvious to all but me Thanks - Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 2 December , 2003 Share Posted 2 December , 2003 I would say that this clause applies to a man on his second (or third, etc.) engagement, who has signed on for 21 years in his current engagement, who has accumulated 21 years pensionable service overall (taking into account both or all engagements), but not yet achieved 21 years in his current engagement. One of the experts will sort it out if I've got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 2 December , 2003 Share Posted 2 December , 2003 Steve, thats brilliant many thanks, have come across many of these on the SWB rolls and have been meaning to find out what they all meant cheers Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWFmedals Posted 2 March , 2005 Share Posted 2 March , 2005 Can anyone enlighten me on KR 392 (xvia) ? Any help gratefully received. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 2 March , 2005 Share Posted 2 March , 2005 Steve, Thanks for taking the tme and posting this, it helps a lot. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 2 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2005 Blimey A resurrection from 15 months ago How time flies Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Oen Posted 3 March , 2005 Share Posted 3 March , 2005 Steve, Looks like you got out of your discharge under Para 392 Clause (viib) Cheers, JAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWFmedals Posted 3 March , 2005 Share Posted 3 March , 2005 That's the problem with posting very useful reference works Steve - they will come back to haunt you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 3 March , 2005 Share Posted 3 March , 2005 There appears to be no clause (xvii) and I have also come across clauses not listed here (xxva), (xxviii). I would assume that these were later additions to the regulations. I think xvii. disappeared c 1912 or 1913 when amendments were promulgated in AO whereby new xvb. and xvi. IN TWO PARAGRAPHS were inserted. I can look AOs up at Cambridge Uni. when I next go if they are needed, but one would need the previous KR or QR to make complete sense. My collection has a gap between 1885 and 1912 amended to 1914. I quote from the latter below: xxva. is a sub clause of xxv: xxva. services no longer rqd, cannot be discharged under any other heading [!!!!!!!!] a catchall clause. xxvb. boy As for xxviii was not current in 1914. The impossible takes a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiviBasha Posted 10 June , 2012 Share Posted 10 June , 2012 Thank you hmsK212 My Grt Grandad was discharged under Kings Regs PARA 392 (XXV), Services being no longer required. From the Hampshire Regiment in 1915. Cheers BiviBasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveburtonwilliams Posted 10 July , 2013 Share Posted 10 July , 2013 I've come across a couple of entries of men who were awarded the Silver War Badge. They were both discharged under KR392 (xxv) and ACI 2333/16. I know that (xxv) is "services no longer required". Can anyone help with the other reference. (I had thought - obviously incorrectly - that the SWB was only awarded to those discharged under para xiv). The names are Sgt Harry Hudson 4th R R Dns 20664 and Pte Walter Worsencroft 5th Lancers 11663 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 10 July , 2013 Admin Share Posted 10 July , 2013 This site lists causes for discharge http://www.forrestdale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/KingsRegs1912/Para392Introduction.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjdagutis Posted 16 November , 2014 Share Posted 16 November , 2014 Thank you so much for the list of reasons! Very helpful. Now, I understand why my ancestor was discharged but I don't understand the rest of the abbreviations. Could anyone enlighten? Tried to attach the file but it was too big so here is my best stab at a transcription: Medal Index Cards, WO/372/7, Image Reference 30159 Name: Findlay, CharlesCorps: Highland Light InfantryRegiment No.: 8311Rank: PrivateEnlistment: 18 Aug 1914Discharge: 30 Oct 1914Cause of Discharge: 392 XVI KR A O II 6 [or G] W S No. O Lellol, .18Action Taken: List D/A/690 According to the birth registration of a daughter in 1918, he was in the 5th ( R ) Battalion, Highland Light Infantry at the time of her birth. Schalene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanst500 Posted 9 April , 2016 Share Posted 9 April , 2016 Thank you so much for the list of reasons! Very helpful. Now, I understand why my ancestor was discharged but I don't understand the rest of the abbreviations. Could anyone enlighten? Tried to attach the file but it was too big so here is my best stab at a transcription: Medal Index Cards, WO/372/7, Image Reference 30159 Name: Findlay, Charles Corps: Highland Light Infantry Regiment No.: 8311 Rank: Private Enlistment: 18 Aug 1914 Discharge: 30 Oct 1914 Cause of Discharge: 392 XVI KR A O II 6 [or G] W S No. O Lellol, .18 Action Taken: List D/A/690 According to the birth registration of a daughter in 1918, he was in the 5th ( R ) Battalion, Highland Light Infantry at the time of her birth. Schalene Please see pic 392 iiie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNH Posted 16 February , 2017 Share Posted 16 February , 2017 Thanks for this post - very useful as I was just looking at the discharge of a soldier from the Royal Lancaster Regiment in 1916. Reason 'Para 392 XVI KR' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 16 February , 2017 Share Posted 16 February , 2017 392 (xvi) is probably the commonest you will see - "no longer physically fit for service." Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNH Posted 16 February , 2017 Share Posted 16 February , 2017 Thanks Ron. Under 'Action taken' it has List H/592. Any ideas? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 16 February , 2017 Share Posted 16 February , 2017 The list number (like a medal roll) with details of the issue. They are available in full on Ancestry, or in transcript form on FindMyPast. Like medal rolls there's sometimes a bit more info than on the index card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNH Posted 16 February , 2017 Share Posted 16 February , 2017 Thanks David. I will have a look Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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