Black Horse Bridge over Ancre River

[Peter Shand]

I am trying to determine the movements of the 25th Division battalions attached to the 32nd Division, who moved into the front line on the night of 2nd / 3rd July 1916 prior to a futile attack on the Leipzig Salient on July 3rd. [see also my post in the Units/ Formations forum]

I would be grateful if someone can define the location of this crossing, which is mentioned in the 2nd S. Lancs History.

[jay dubaya]

Hi Peter, the following is taken from here and quotes the Black Horse Bridge.

Soon enough, from the huts in the orchard, from the mud-walled barns by the church, from the blankets in the straw or the mahogany beds with the mountainous straw mattresses, we were marching eastward again, with little to recommend our future to us. It was now approaching the beginning of November, and the days were melancholy, and the color of clay. We took over that deathtrap known as the Schwaben Redoubt, the way to which lay through the fallen fortress of Thiepval. One had heard the worst accounts of the place, and they were true. Crossing the Ancre again at Black Horse Bridge, one went up through the scanty skeleton houses of Authuille, and climbing the dirty little road over the steep bank, one immediately entered the land of despair.

Hope this goes some way to help in your quest, cheers, Jon

http://www.1914-1918.org/MAPS/maps/sommegibb.jpg

[Beau Geste]

I've just finished reading Charles Douie's classic "The Weary Road" (if you haven't read it yet I strongly recommend it). He too talks about Black Horse Bridge and from what he says it isn't far from Aveluy and Crucifix Corner. A friend is trying to locate its precise position before we visit the area in April. If no one on The Forum knows its position, I'll post a msg as soon as I hear from him.

Harry

[Jack Sheldon]

There seems to be a marked reluctance for anybody to supply this info, so herewith a map of the locality as requested.

Jack

[Rupert]

Authuille Bridge still exists mate. And there's a great restaurant right next to it. I'm not sure about the rest.

[Beau Geste]

There seems to be a marked reluctance for anybody to supply this info, so herewith a map of the locality as requested.

Jack

Thanks Jack, Great map. Any idea where Blood Alley Trench is ?

Harry

[Jack Sheldon]

Harry

I am afraid I am not a specialist in this subject; there are many members of the Forum much better informed than I am. There was a Book Review thread last year about 'Rats Alley' by Peter Chassaud, being a massive work of reference on Trench names, to be used in conjunction with trench maps. That might be of assistance. If you can narrow down where on the Western Front this place might have been, I may have by chance have it on a map somewhere, but I suggest that you start a new Western Front thread called something like, Where was Blood Alley? and someone should be able to rush to the rescue.

Jack

[Peter Shand]

Thanks, Jack, for the map pinpointing the bridge. Now I have a good point of reference east of Martinsaart Wood, where my great-uncle likely passed on his way to his fate. Now to see if I can find another location towards or in the front line.

Your help is much appreciated.

Regards, Pete

[Peter Shand]

Authuille Bridge still exists mate. And there's a great restaurant right next to it. I'm not sure about the rest.

Thanks for the info, Rupert. Do you know if the Black Horse Bridge, which is shown to the south of Authuille Bridge still exists?

Pete

[Rupert]

Pete - judging by the map, the view across the bridge, will be about 30 seconds (maybe not even that) on the left after Blighty Valley Cemetery, which will be on your right. You might want to scramble through the woods to the Ancre (respecting local farmers' land of course) and you've pretty much got it. Whether there are any remains, I don't know. If you find anything, let us know!

Stu

[SFayers]

90th Field Ambulance had one of their advanced dressing stations at Black Horse Bridge when they were based at Bouzincourt in June / July 1916 (from copies of the war diary). I didn't know where this was either - but now I do!

Another 90th FA ADS is referred to as being at 'Cabstand'. Does anyone have any idea where this may have been?

cheers

Steve

[Beau Geste]

Harry

I am afraid I am not a specialist in this subject; there are many members of the Forum much better informed than I am. There was a Book Review thread last year about 'Rats Alley' by Peter Chassaud, being a massive work of reference on Trench names, to be used in conjunction with trench maps. That might be of assistance. If you can narrow down where on the Western Front this place might have been, I may have by chance have it on a map somewhere, but I suggest that you start a new Western Front thread called something like, Where was Blood Alley? and someone should be able to rush to the rescue.

Jack

Hello Jack,

Thanks for your response. On the 1st July 1916 - the 2nd Border Regiment were part of the 7th Div which included 1st Royal Welch Fusiliers - Sassoon's battalion. The 2nd Borders were in 20th Brigade which included 8th and 9th Devon's (Capt Martin and Lt W N Hodgson's battalion). My relative, Albert Bleakley, certainly rubbed shoulders with some big hitters of the Great War!! According to the second Bn's war diary they were plastered just before the off and it says that Mansell Copse got the worst of it. I'm assuming therefore that Blood Alley Trench was somewhere in that area.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

Friends and I got back a few days ago from The Somme and on our last day we spent several hours searching for Black Horse Bridge. We had a number of reference points to work with and because of that we were pretty confident that we would be able to find it.

Well, it proved to be a lot more difficult than we had envisaged mainly because access to the bank of the Ancre is restricted in most places and damn difficult to negotiate where access was possible.

Anyway to cut a long story short, we think we found it and we have a photo (or to be more precise my friend does and as soon as he's put it on to his PC and sent me a copy, I'll post it here).

We think it is immediately behind the civilian cemetery on the south edge of Authuille village. If you go to the back of the cemetery to the very high conifer hedge, access to the bank of the Ancre behind it is possible through a narrow gap in the right hand corner of the hedge. It isn't easy but you can get down to the level of the river and there's a metal bridge close by. I'm not saying that this bridge is the original but we think the site could be. The banks are high and in 1916 they were honeycombed with dugouts etc. From photographs we've seen it really does look as if it is the right spot.

Hope this helps

Harry

[Peter Shand]

Hi Harry: Good to hear you found the location. I look forward to seeing the photo, when available.

Regards, Pete

[Beau Geste]

Hi Harry: Good to hear you found the location. I look forward to seeing the photo, when available.

Regards, Pete

Hello Pete,

I received it this morning. We didn't actually get down to the level of the Ancre but we weren't far from it. If you can imagine standing on the bridge and looking back to where my friend photographed it (half way down the bank) that area was honeycombed with dugouts etc., in 1916. We're pretty sure it's the right place. We searched from Authuille Bridge down to about five or six hundred metres south of the civilian cemetery and this position matches everything that has been written about it and the map that has been posted on this thread.

Harry

[Peter Shand]

A great photo, Harry! How peaceful the crossing site looks today, compared to Blunden's description (see link in post # 2) during, possibly, in the last quarter of 1916, while the attacks east of Thiepval were continuing.

"Crossing the Ancre again at Black Horse Bridge, one went up through the scanty skeleton houses of Authuille, and climbing the dirty little road over the steep bank, one immediately entered the land of despair. Bodies, bodies, and their useless gear heaped the gross waste ground; the slimy road was soon only a mud track with passed a whitish tumulus of ruin with lurking entrances, some spikes that had been pine trees, a bricked cellar or two, and died out. The village pond, so blue on the map, had completely disappeared."

Thanks for posting it, Pete

[Paul Reed]

Couple of extracts from the Linesman system.

First, a trench map - the 'pontoon bridge' is Black Horse Bridge.

[Paul Reed]

Modern aerial data. I have traced the route of the bridge in red.

Remember the accuracy of this trace depends on the accuracy of the 1916 map.

[Peter Shand]

Hi Paul: A nice post indeed! Its good to see the Linesman system in action. I have made a cheap collage of the area using Google Earth as a base and tracing Groonaert's and Jack Sheldons trench maps using drafting software to superimpose them as layers.

As you say, the accuracy depends on the old trench maps, but it seems that there is good correlation on your posted mapping between the Caithness Trench clearly visible in the aerial (from a crop pattern?) and at the Granatloch.

I'm following the Linesman thread on the Map forum, with some envy. I guess I can use my mapping with my Garmin GPS, when and if I make it to the Leipzig Salient, during my next visit to relatives in Britain.

Regards, Pete

[Paul Reed]

Glad it was of interest.

[Beau Geste]

A great photo, Harry! How peaceful the crossing site looks today, compared to Blunden's description (see link in post # 2) during, possibly, in the last quarter of 1916, while the attacks east of Thiepval were continuing.

"Crossing the Ancre again at Black Horse Bridge, one went up through the scanty skeleton houses of Authuille, and climbing the dirty little road over the steep bank, one immediately entered the land of despair. Bodies, bodies, and their useless gear heaped the gross waste ground; the slimy road was soon only a mud track with passed a whitish tumulus of ruin with lurking entrances, some spikes that had been pine trees, a bricked cellar or two, and died out. The village pond, so blue on the map, had completely disappeared."

Thanks for posting it, Pete

You're welcome and Paul's additions seem to prove that it is the correct place. You used the term "peaceful" and you are absolutely right. See my thread on Lt Col ET Sandys on the " Soldiers " section for comments on this.

Hope you get to The Leipzig.

Harry

[Beau Geste]

Couple of extracts from the Linesman system.

First, a trench map - the 'pontoon bridge' is Black Horse Bridge.

Thank you Paul for the maps etc. When you say "the pontoon bridge is Black Horse Bridge" do you mean that the metal pontoon that my friend photographed ten days ago is the original? I hope this isn't a silly question; I ask because we had assumed it was the right place but that the bridge is a 'modern' replacement.

Harry

[cockney tone]

Missed this post first time around, really interesting update thanks for sharing the pics and maps, will put on my list of places to visit and will have to read Douies book again.

regards,

Scottie.

[Paul Reed]

Thank you Paul for the maps etc. When you say "the pontoon bridge is Black Horse Bridge" do you mean that the metal pontoon that my friend photographed ten days ago is the original? I hope this isn't a silly question; I ask because we had assumed it was the right place but that the bridge is a 'modern' replacement.

Harry

Hi Harry - no, what you saw is not the original bridge, as it was destroyed in March 1918. A later bridge was then constructed by the Germans, and no doubt another added by us in the summer offensive period after Authuille was retaken in August 1918.

What I meant is on the trench map extract Black Horse Bridge is simply marked as 'pontoon bridge' rather than by its name.

[Beau Geste]

Hi Harry - no, what you saw is not the original bridge, as it was destroyed in March 1918. A later bridge was then constructed by the Germans, and no doubt another added by us in the summer offensive period after Authuille was retaken in August 1918.

What I meant is on the trench map extract Black Horse Bridge is simply marked as 'pontoon bridge' rather than by its name.

Thank you Paul. That clears everything up. We started our search about 600 metres south of the village. A track runs down to the Ancre and there is an identical metal bridge there too. I have to say they do look "military" and very old but it's nice to know that we did at least find the spot.

Harry