Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

RAMC Officers


PhilB

Recommended Posts

I’ve been doing research on a RAMC Doctor whose sidearm I have in my collection. Here is what I have gleaned so far, and a couple of pictures.

Temp. Captain C(harles) F(rancis) Drew, M.B. RAMC

First, a response to a query to the University of Adelaide:

"As records of graduation are considered public knowledge, I can confirm that a Charles Francis DREW graduated from The University of Adelaide with a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBS) on 13 December 1911.

Kind Regards,

Tanya Didrichsons"

Next, information from the MIC and the L.G.:

19 March 1915- Appointed Temp Lieutenant --- L.G. 12 May 1915 (Supp)

1 June 1915 – Entered France --- Medal Index Card

19 March 1916 – Appointed Temp Captain --- L.G. 10 April 1916 (Supp)

24 Dec1917 – Mentioned in Despatches (L.G. of same date? Pg.12484?) Medal Index Card

23 Jan 1918 –Relinquished commission on account of illness. – L.G. 22 Jan. 1918 (Supp)

1 Jan 1919- Awarded the Military Cross (No. 9, Field Amb) - L.G. 1 Jan. 1919 (Supp)

7 Nov 1924 ? Associated with Victory, British , Star (1915) & Emblems on MIC

Also shown as on Officer roll 141 Pgs. 204b and 338 .

Bjay provided me with the following:

"DREW, Chas. Francis M.C., c/o National Bank of Australasia, 5 Bishopsgate, E.C.2 - M.B.,B.S. Adelaide 1911: Temp. Capt R.A.M.C.

Found this in the 1921 Medical Directory. If it is your man then he went on to become a Practitioner within the postal District of London."

I also have his birthplace, birthdate and his parents but can’t seem to lay my hands on them right now.

It is my assumption that he returned to Australia sometime after 1921 as the sidearm in question came out of Australia. (I have documentation that it was in Australia at least as early as 1947.)

Here’s a brief history of

No.9, Field Ambulance.

Joined 3rd Division Aug 1914

Left 3rd Division 28 Aug 1915

Joined Guards Division 28 Aug 1915

Duration?

The following is a response I received from David Penn in reply to my queries.

"It was entirely usual for RAMC officers to carry a pistol. and, as with other army officers, they were required to purchase their own. By the middle of the war this was in practice possible where .455 revolvers were concerned only by purchasing a revolver 'out of store' (i.e. from the War Office) or second hand, privately. It was of course still possible to purchase pistols not in the Service calibre from civilian sources, and many officers chose to carry something other than (or as well as) a .455 (.32 acp Colts were very popular). Revolvers with the opposed broad arrow markings were 'sold out of store'. These became the officer's property absolutely. At the end of the War, there was a second shortage of revolvers (the American factories were making for the American government, and relations between the British government and Webley were not good). The government therefore launched an appeal to retired officers to sell back their .455s. Very occasionally, therefore, such a revolver is found with cancelled 'sold out of store' markings.

I hope that this information is of help in your research.

Yours sincerely,

David Penn

Keeper, Exhibits & Firearms"

And, finally, a couple of pictures:

TL1A.jpg

TL2.jpg

Dean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dean

Thanks for that very interesting addition to the topic. A very nice item to have.

Pete Starling

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to be right.

I'm sorry to butt in, I have never posted before but I often read with interest The Forum and I have become a little confused. You stated that it's nice to be right that all RAMC carried arms but Pete Starlings post looks as though it is only the officers that carried arms.

Can anyone confirm please?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would echo the previous post (welcome and feel free to post), absolutely no doubt that officers were perfectly entitled to bear arms, but I have never seen this extended to other ranks, however para 363 of the 1911 RAMC manual covering the Geneva Convention states

"The protection afforded to the personnel of medical units is not forfeited by the fact that they carry weapons for self defence or hold the arms and ammuntion of the wounded who are under their care"

No mention of rank.

This is from the 1864 convention and it is repeated on the 1906 convention slightly differently, that said my Grandfather was adamant that no OR's(he was one) carried weapons, they were stored, but never used, some officers did carry revolvers as they were entitled. The long weapons were for picquets but in reality never used ,I personally would not like to put this article to the test.

Also I cannot recall ever seeing a single photograph of an OR in the RAMC with a weapon, although I do not dispute it could have occured.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am right in that I said:

Early RAMC manuals even describe bayonet and sword drill. I have absolutely no doubt that RAMC were, as a minimum, equipped with side-arms for self protection.

I did not add 'in two ranks'!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 31 2007, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Welcome, hedgehog. Nice to see a face other than the "usual suspects"! Phil B

Thank you for the confirmation and for your welcome to The Forum. I haven't posted before because I haven't really anything to say but I just was a little confused on the issue about arms.

My interest in reading The Forum is that I have two daughters both studying for exams The Great War at school and my youngest recently has done her coursework for GCSE on the part of a stretcherbear during World War 1. I have two relatives who were in the RAMC (my father being one of them) and so I was around the RAMC whilst I was growing up.

Now I have joined it is possible that I may ask questions again in the future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of us know something about some aspect of WW1. Nobody knows a lot about most aspects! We all ask questions. That`s what the forum`s for. Ask away! Phil B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have always been under the impression that the RAMC units had allocated weapons and were trained in basic use (not forgetting there is an important requirement for them to be able to make safe their patients weapons) but rarely carried them as there was no requirement. I would consider carrying a stretchar case was hard enough with out being encumbered by a rifle. Should the medic be in such a desparate situation that he needed a rifle, I would imagine there would be plenty of spare weapons lying around!

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 years later...

an old thread but i have a photo of my great grandad a Sjt in the RAMC and fought in africa. He has a rifle with him. Dont think they would have taken that banjo into battle with them but you never know. Taken sometime in WW1.

img076.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RAMC officers carry swords on ceremonial occasions but do not unsheath them as other officers would I.e. they do not practise sword drill. As a serving member of the RAMC from 1964-88 I was armed (in theory) with a Sterling submachine gun or a 9mm Browning pistol for self defence, neither particularly effective. I understand that personnel are now armed with the SA80 (I think) and the self defence aspect may have gone.

Not all RAMC officers are doctors, there are admin officers, nursing officers (male) radiographers etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

My grandfather Alexander Pirie Watson served during WW1 as MO with the 4th Royal Scots at Cape Helles and in Palestine. I have his sword and several photos of him wearing it...both prewar and postwar- and it isn't very sharp! He completed a machine gun course in 1912 with the Royal Scots prior to re-mustering with the RAMC (after he qualified), so he would have known how to operate a vickers if he had too!!!!! Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...