Great War Fiction: Yea or Nay?

[PhilB]

It's a literary construct no matter how well intended the search for objectivity.

Cheers,

Dave

But maybe with sufficient objectivity to fulfil the criteria for a good read? Phil B

[Guest mruk]

A good read is all that is hoped in many cases, unless written through memoirs or a semi-autobiographical account, and even these forms need to be treat with some degree of skepticism and caution.

Dave

[withcall]

What's wrong with a good read? As long as the work doesn't set out to be anything else at the outset, then so what? Some novels may have had a campaigning subtext, eg Uncle Tom's Cabin, and I'm certain that Dickens' novels drew attention to several social inequalities in Victorian England. The novels of Dickens succeed irrespective of the social context that they describe. If I want to know 'the facts' about historical events, then I'll go to the Non-Fiction section, if I want a good read, I'll go to the Non Fiction. If I'm hungry, I'll have something to eat, not go to the optician.

I think we are in danger of disappearing up our own fundaments on this one - I think it's obvious that there are brethren out there who simply don't recognise the validity of fiction, full stop, end of. That's their choice, and it doesn't hurt me. All I would say is that you can't put in a plea for WW1 to to be the only aspect of human endeavour, past or present, that you can't write a novel about. That way madness lies.

[Joan and Terry]

I wonder if anyone knows which is the more popular,fact or fiction with reference to books about the Great War,you do not have to have experience of something to write or talk about it,i.e. science fiction,very popular,Harry Potter,priest giving advice to people on marriage and raising a family.I will read and enjoy many books on the War,it does not matter,fact or fiction,there are good and bad in both catagories,pay your money and take your choice.

Joan

[Guest mruk]

An interesting concept, Joan. A priest imparting advice on family and marriage. 'Harry Potter' is one of my many [many] pet hates, and it really aggrieves me to see a grown up sitting on a bus reading 'Harry Potter' when they could be reading something more challenging like--well, like anything. I don't go in for all this science fiction stuff either, as we both agreed to disagree in a rather amicable way on a previous thread, and being the friendly bloke that I am I've provided a link to a piece of music that I hope you will enjoy. Cheers, Dave.

Withcall,

There's nothing wrong with a good read, but I'm not sure who is meant to be 'disappearing up their own fundamentals' here, but on the very slim chance that your remarks were aimed in my direction, then please don't presume that I don't know the difference between a bookstore and a library. I'm more than capable of finding my way around both. Unless I want something to eat and drink in Borders Bookshop and I've forget my glasses. Now that way chaos ensues.

Regards,

Dave

[jblake66]

Take 'Ivanhoe' or 'Robin Hood', for instance, and ask yourselves whether both are representative of the middle ages, or the product of a literary imagination that has since come to be seen as speaking for the period itself.

If 200 years from now the essence of the Great War is represented by Pat Barker I'll be rolling in my grave.

[Dolphin]

It appears from Amazon that there are recent paperback editions of 3 of John Biggins' Otto Prohaska novels. Possibly the 4th will follow, as the publication date of the latest edition of the 3rd book is only last November.

According to Amazon.com Tomorrow the World, the fourth book in John Biggins' series on the life of Leutnant Otto Prohaska of the Austro-Hungarian Navy will be re-published in May this year. After greatly enjoying the three earlier volumes (A Sailor of Austria, The Emperor's Coloured Coat and The Double-Headed Eagle) I've already placed my order.

As others have testified, the series has added greatly to general knowledge of life inside the Habsburg's Empire in its dying days. The books are very readable, and crammed with accurate information - plus the odd bit of truth-stretching here and there.

Gareth

[Paul Hederer]

Getting back to the your original post Augustine, if you're still reading this, and I wouldn't blame you if you had stopped a few weeks ago, go ahead and write your book without worries.

Don't pay attention to the curmudgeons. There will always be a good market for well-written fiction, war related or not.

They may have banned music and kites, but even the Taliban didn't ban fiction, so I think we're safe.

Paul

[PBI]

Flippant, maybe; pertinent and absolutely spot on, definitely.

I do think you and Paul are fighting a losing battle though. I don't know if there is any fiction which would pass PBI's criteria! (And I seem to recall that PBI has said just this in previous discussions).

Novels? They'll never catch on, you know.

Jim

Sorry Troops,No Great War Fiction Books in this "ere Ome" we had held the torchlit ,Book Burning ceremony here A Few Years Ago,and lots of Fun it was too.

[Joan and Terry]

Sorry Troops,No Great War Fiction Books in this "ere Ome" we had held the torchlit ,Book Burning ceremony here A Few Years Ago,and lots of Fun it was too.

I do hope that you are joking with regards to burning books,seem to recall some other group decided to do that way back in the 30's

I can enjoy books on the War,be it fact or fiction,if I purchase a book I do not like,I give it to a charity shop.

Joan

[Ozzie]

For someone who has just written a fictional story whose characters fight in WW1, this has been a very informative thread.

Ta

Kim

[PhilB]

The Boer War is virtually a fiction free zone, is it not? The Great War seems to me to have one large advantage and one large disadvantage for the fiction writer. On the plus side, the stresses and strains on and between people at all levels must have been particularly high - surely fertile ground for the writer. On the minus side, more seems to be known by the public (or is it only us?) about the minutiae of service life which makes it more difficult for the author to get the reader to suspend disbelief. But in 200 years, I think the plus will easily exceed the minus. And yes, though I didn`t like it, Barker`s work may be seen as the benchmark. Though I think not - there`s a WW1 O`Brien or Cornwell somewhere in the future. Phil B

[PBI]

I do hope that you are joking with regards to burning books,seem to recall some other group decided to do that way back in the 30'.

Joan

Would that have been the Communists Burning Capitalist Books,The Germans Burning Communist/Jewish Books,or The Americans Burning Communist/German Books...Phew seems that they were all at it.

[Jim Clay]

Burning of books?

Be it Hitler, Stalin, Taliban, US rednecks, supposedly British religious bigots, whoever - it's the stifling of thought and/or dissent and/or independence. Disgusting whoever does it.

Fahrenheit 451 was a thoughtful sci-fi parody by Ray Bradbury - title based on the supposed temperature at which book paper burned. He too was horrified at this manifestation of intolerance.

Jim

[Joan and Terry]

Burning of books?

Be it Hitler, Stalin, Taliban, US rednecks, supposedly British religious bigots, whoever - it's the stifling of thought and/or dissent and/or independence. Disgusting whoever does it.

Fahrenheit 451 was a thoughtful sci-fi parody by Ray Bradbury - title based on the supposed temperature at which book paper burned. He too was horrified at this manifestation of intolerance.

Jim

So eloquently put.

Joan

[PBI]

http://www.gslis.utexas.edu/~landc/bookpla...5_3_Louvain.htm

[Jim Clay]

http://www.gslis.utexas.edu/~landc/bookpla...5_3_Louvain.htm

Are you citing this as an example of the intolerance of knowledge and thought that lies behind the deliberate burning of books because of what they contain?

Bad things happen in war. And this would appear to be one of them - but from my reading of it, not a Nazi-style deliberate suppression of non-party-line knowledge.

Jim

(and yes, I know, this is getting well off the original topic...)

[PBI]

Spot on Jim,nothing political in my post,just an example of the Madness of War.I also recall that when the Romans Sacked Alexandria,that they used the Books held therein to provide Fuel to Heat their Baths,said Books lasted out for 3 Days.

[truthergw]

Spot on Jim,nothing political in my post,just an example of the Madness of War.I also recall that when the Romans Sacked Alexandria,that they used the Books held therein to provide Fuel to Heat their Baths,said Books lasted out for 3 Days.

Not all the Library's contents were destroyed by the Romans. The last of the books, scrolls to be exact, were burned after the Muslim conquest of North Africa. This is said to have been a deliberate book burning and was justified by stating that if the contents of the scrolls were contained in the Koran, they were superfluous and if not then they were in error.

[Jim Clay]

Not all the Library's contents were destroyed by the Romans. The last of the books, scrolls to be exact, were burned after the Muslim conquest of North Africa. This is said to have been a deliberate book burning and was justified by stating that if the contents of the scrolls were contained in the Koran, they were superfluous and if not then they were in error.

And, reflecting on that last point, I shall haud ma whisht, not wishing to get into relevant but controversial realms....

[PBI]

Off out for a Few Ales,purely for medicinal Purposes of course..

[Paul Hederer]

Not all the Library's contents were destroyed by the Romans. The last of the books, scrolls to be exact, were burned after the Muslim conquest of North Africa. This is said to have been a deliberate book burning and was justified by stating that if the contents of the scrolls were contained in the Koran, they were superfluous and if not then they were in error.

Tom,

Not sure where you heard that, but that is not correct. Many of the works that survived from the library and a lot of other ancient science/literature only made it into modern times as it was translated into Arabic. Books were much sought after booty for Muslims.

In fact the Arabs took a lot of effort to translate ancient texts into Arabic.

Paul

[marcston]

QUOTE (Phil_B @ Jan 26 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I haven`t found a non-veteran yet who could write convincing WW1 fiction. As soon as I see reference to the Loamshire regiment, my eyes tend to glaze! I think it will be done, though, just as Cornwell manages it for the Napoleonic era (and the Dark Ages) and O`Brien for the times of Nelson. And it may well be a forum member who pulls it off! Phil B

Cornwell is one of my favorites.

What he told on his website was also an eye-opener for me.

One question was about the historical accuracy in the appearance of "historical characters". Cornwell answered clearly that what these characters say and do is very "plot driven". E.g. the characters only will say what's relevant to the plot and will not give out too much details.

In this way it's not very historical, but makes a great read. As for the environment the characters move in, Cornwell does do an excellent job.

Of course the fictional accounts tend to prevail in memory over the "non fictional" dry stuff as the latter often misses the "personal touch" of having a Sharpe or a Starbuck present from beginning to end.

Regards,

Marcston

[Muskoka]

I've just published my 3rd historical fiction, this one partly set during the Great War. As usual, I read dozens of historical tomes (over 90 for this one), diaries, letters, and other primary documents. It is not primarily a war story, but an epic about Canadian families in a specific environment, and products of that era, who are changed by their experiences - symbolic of the country itself.

I recently did a presentation to a book club of 20 women who were mostly in their 30s (and all huge fans of my work). They admitted that they had known virtually nothing about the war, but had learned plenty from my novel. (Shame on our educational system, but there you have it!) My objectives in writing are to enlighten and entertain, and I'm thrilled to realize that I have done that. Which also makes me aware that I have a responsibility to my readers to be as accurate as possible in my re-creation of events. When I described the sinking of the Lusitania, for instance, my characters had experiences based upon those of real people.

That having been said, I do take some artistic licence which would irritate the purists. For instance, in my work-in-progress(which is a sequel, beginning in 1916), I have von Richthofen painting his aeroplane red a few months before he really did. This is because if people know about him at all, they recognize him as the Red Baron. (Sorry all you experts, but there are people who've never heard of him - or think he is from the Snoopy comic strip!) That allows me to introduce him - for plot reasons - and when we meet him again in later chapters, I won't have to explain that he is now the Red Baron. A minor detail that will make no difference to most readers - and how many of you know precisely when he did paint his plane red? Is it worth quibbling about???

Don't read my books if all you want is fact. If you're interested in a good yarn woven into a well-researched historical tapestry, then you might have a enjoyable read. And if I can subtly enlighten people about any aspects of our history, then I am well satisfied.

Gabriele

[Ozzie]

Well said, Gabriele.

Cheers

Kim