Borys Posted 14 January , 2007 Share Posted 14 January , 2007 Ahoj! How much would infantry be expected to march day in, day out through rolling or hilly country, with few roads. Light forest. Almost pure infantry, with little artillery. The could be enemy without, but any resistance would be light. What was the speed of German units through the Ardennes? Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 14 January , 2007 Share Posted 14 January , 2007 From the Manual for Noncommissioned Officers and Privates of Infantry in the Army of the United States, Washington, Government Printing Office, 1918: "The rate of march depends greatly upon the condition of the roads and weather, but the average rate for infantry is 2 1/2 miles per hour. This allows for a rest of 10 minutes each hour. The total distance marched in a day depends not only on the rate of march, but upon the size of the command, large commands covering about 10 miles per day, while small commands easily cover double that distance." I'll let you Europeans convert that to kilometers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 14 January , 2007 Share Posted 14 January , 2007 Ahoj! How much would infantry be expected to march day in, day out through rolling or hilly country, with few roads. Light forest. Almost pure infantry, with little artillery. The could be enemy without, but any resistance would be light. What was the speed of German units through the Ardennes? Borys A lot would depend on the kit they were carrying. A squaddie with small pack, water bottle and carrying a rifle would do at least one 30 mile route march in his basic training. Are they being fed hot meals and moving into billets at the end of the day or are they having to bivouac? Lots of variables but 10 to 15 miles a day for several days at least, more if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 15 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! 2 1/2 miles = 4 kilometres Full kit. They bivouac. Wood and water are plentiful. Nightime temperatures are 5 Centigrade. Daytime temperatures are in the high teens. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! 2 1/2 miles = 4 kilometres Full kit. They bivouac. Wood and water are plentiful. Nightime temperatures are 5 Centigrade. Daytime temperatures are in the high teens. Borys Borys, Depends on the size of the unit as well. It's a matter of organization as much as anything else. If you're talking about 10 men marching that's a much different matter than a corps. The Germans and Austrians, as well as the other countries published tables, estimating these march speeds, for different types of units in different conditions. Unforuntately my copies are not due to arrive until the end of the month, so I can't help you with specific data. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 15 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! Thank you for the pointers. Unit size would be about 5000. Four rifle battalions of 1000 each, 6-8 light 6-7cm artillery pieces, some supply trains. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! Thank you for the pointers. Unit size would be about 5000. Four rifle battalions of 1000 each, 6-8 light 6-7cm artillery pieces, some supply trains. Borys Borys, Here is an example from a German WWII manual I found on line: . MARCH SPEEDS. (1) The average speeds of division marches in miles per hour are as follows: By day By Night Infantry division . . . . . 3 3 Motorized division . . . . . 16 10 Armored division . . . . . 12 7 (2) The average speeds of march columns in miles per hour are as follows: Infantry (long marches) . . . . . 3 Infantry (short marches) . . . . . 4 Mounted troops . . . . . 6 Cyclists . . . . . 8 Motorcycles and cars . . . . . 22 Trucks . . . . . 22 Trucks with trailers . . . . . 16 Half-track vehicles . . . . . 16 Tanks . . . . . 12 c. MARCH DISTANCES. The infantry division normally can march about 20 miles in a day; under adverse weather or road conditions the rate of march may fall to 10 miles a day. The motorized division can maintain an average daily march of between 90 and 150 miles; the armored division from 60 to 90 miles a day. In the near vicinity of the combat zone, road movements without motor transport average 10 to 15 miles a day, while movements by motor transport approximate 30 miles a day. The field handbooks, or General Staff handbooks have very detail information for every type of formation and terrain type. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 15 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! Thank you Paul. I'm happy with 20 miles a day. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hederer Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! Thank you Paul. I'm happy with 20 miles a day. Borys Borys, 20 miles a day would be the high end for march speed, especially over days. 15 miles a day is more typical. Are you asking about August-September 1914 by chance? Some of the German units on the right flank had some phenomenal march rates, but these were not normal, nor sustainable. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 15 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Ahoj! Thank you for pointing out that 20 miles a day is "burst speed" What I meant, but did not write , is that I'll use 20 miles a day as point of reference for top speed. For my purposes I'll use a rate of 10 miles a day. The unit is quite small and unencumbered, but: - broken terrain - unknown terrain - few or no roads - suspected enemy presence In this context August/September 1914 interests me only as evdence of what is possible. And the rightmost flank units were real "sportsmen" But I presume that the army which pushed through the Ardennes (3rd? 4th?) would have had a more "normal" march rate. Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Borys, An example, from the History of the 8th Royal Scots(Pioneers to the 51st (Highland) Division) The Marne(July 1918) "During the four days(17th to 20th) the Battalion marched 100 kilos,carrying full equipment,in broiling sunshine,a feat of which they have every reason to be proud" George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 From the Officers' Manual, by Major James A. Moss, 24th U.S. Infantry, April 1917: "The average march for infantry is from 15 to 20 miles a day; for cavalry, from 20 to 25, and for artillery from 15 to 25." "Since marching at the rear of the column is more disagreeable and fatiguing than marching at the front, organizations should take daily turns in leading." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 15 January , 2007 Share Posted 15 January , 2007 Permit me to prolong this thread with a few comments. (I have been studying the movements of some units during the Somme campaign in August to October of 1916). In the Great War on the Western Front, most route marching was done to get from the railhead to the front line. That is, there was not much done in the presence of the enemy. Also, the figures we are talking about almost always assume marching on roads. It seems to me the limit on distance usually is due to logistical issues. For example, no unit could move in isolation. There were always other units on the flanks, or fore and aft. There were often relieved units going the other way. There were traffic jams at intersections, and so on. There were few roads , and these also were carrying other traffic (transport, signals, etc.). Each unit had to have stopping places arranged, billets, rations, and arrangements for stragglers and whatnot. All units, including infantry, would have had some horse drawn trandport. This is why daily stages of ten to fifteen miles seem to have been aimed for. As an example, we could look at a March Order for the 6th Canadian Infantry Brigade Group (less artillery) on their way up in September, 1916. This describes one of a two day march with each stage being about ten miles. Notice that due to the 500 yard space between units, the last unit started off more than an hour and a half after the first one. This march would have been typical of a Great War march. I know this does not directly address the original question, but it may be useful as a fill in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan and Terry Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Having recently listened to a CD Oh! What a Lovely War,Sergeant Edward Dwyer said they marched 20 miles in a day on more than one occasion,and singing as they marched seemed to make it a bit easier. Joan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borys Posted 19 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Ahoj! That's why there's a genre of music called "marches" In my younger and leaner days, when hiking over the mountains, I'd sling a ghetto-blaster over my backpack and put on Leibach or pipes&drum Scotish music - the miles sped beneath my boots unnoticed ... Borys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joan and Terry Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Ahoj! That's why there's a genre of music called "marches" In my younger and leaner days, when hiking over the mountains, I'd sling a ghetto-blaster over my backpack and put on Leibach or pipes&drum Scotish music - the miles sped beneath my boots unnoticed ... Borys Yes,but marching music was to keep the men/women in step,I think the songs the lads were singing as they marched along was to take their minds off the distance they had to travel,as ex service,I cannot imagine being able to keep in step whilst singing Goodbyeee. Joan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Yes,but marching music was to keep the men/women in step,I think the songs the lads were singing as they marched along was to take their minds off the distance they had to travel,as ex service,I cannot imagine being able to keep in step whilst singing Goodbyeee. Joan I have marched behind pipes and drums and a company piper. They would play marches,rants and reels as well as slow airs. It did not affect our regulation pace but definitely helped us along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 20 January , 2007 Share Posted 20 January , 2007 The U.S. Army uses "Route Step" on long marches, which means that the troops don't have to be in step. Our jogging in formation is a type of physical training borrowed from the airborne and applied to the entire Army after WW II to toughen up the men. In the 1980s the lyrics of the songs sung while jogging in formation, the so-called Jody Cadences, had to be cleaned up because their sometimes explicit content offended some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffsreg Posted 20 January , 2007 Share Posted 20 January , 2007 From the Field Service pocket book (1914)-- Chapter II -marches and march discipline- 3. 'an average march under normal conditions for a large column 0f all arms is 15 miles a day, with a rest at least once a week; small commands of seasoned troops can cover 25miles a day under favourable conditions.' Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffsreg Posted 20 January , 2007 Share Posted 20 January , 2007 Interestingly from same chapter- MARCHING IN FROST AND SNOW 15. 'The most efficaceous measure against cold is an increased issue of rations; during the halts the men should not be allowed to sit down, or to fall asleep. It is best not to make long halts. In the cavalry, men should dismount from time to time.' Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 August , 2019 Share Posted 16 August , 2019 1965 I was one of 15 cadets 25 miles a day for 4 days. Aged 16 with 40 lbs to carry. Nimegan marches. Durham Light Infantry was only unit to pass us. Parachute Regiment Territorials super fit - hand stands, etc at last rest stop on final day. U.S. sent 520 from Germany only 52 completed - done no training. We has a sergeant from Anglian regiment to help our officer. We saw him, disliked him and marched him off the second day and saw no more of him. Here again, no training - fat, idle and about to retire. School sent unit every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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